Officiating and the treatment they get in Southern Ohio

[svbt1112]

I would agree that there are some guys in the stands who simply want attention---or who yell at the ref to "bait" him. I would also tell you that the good refs don't notice it.

I watched a ref a few years back shut a guy up in the front row---he turned around and blew him a kiss---saw it with my own eyes----and the guy never said another word! Probably not taught in the class but that night it worked.

I don't enjoy hearing people yell "call it both ways" when they mean "call it our way". Or, when the fouls are 7-2 and someone yells "hey ref, the fouls are 7-2 even it up!" as if both teams should always have an equal amount of fouls. Sometimes the stronger team doesn't need to foul or the more aggressive team commits more fouls and this is actually a good thing. A former coach told me once that he wanted to have more fouls than the other team in the first half because it meant his team was being more aggressive.........not sure if I totally agree with that but I understand the sentiment.

I also think that in our culture we don't like NOT HAVING CONTROL! Once the game starts the Referees are in control and we don't really care for it.

And, by the way---Friday night I might just yell at the referees once or twice.

[Burg_Grad_77]

Here's a few things I've noticed about the officiating in games over the past few years that can get a little frustrtating for players, coaches, and fans.

1. A player drives to the basket and collides with another player and both go to the floor and no call is made either way. If you have two players collide hard enough for both to hit the floor there had to be a Charge or a Block commited.

2. On the same lines as above, two or three plays later a defensive player barely nudges an offensive player bringing the ball up the floor and the whistle is blown immediately. No consistency in the calls.

3. In the first half two teams push and shove each other all over the paint and very few fouls are called. Tempers flare right before the half and players have to be seperated. In the second half if a player even breathes on another player he is called for a foul. It's like they went in at the half and decided, "Well, we better get this under control fellas". If they hadn't let it get out of control in the first half it wouldn't have gotten to that point. Once again, no consistency.

4. Guys making calls when they are out of position. A guy will make a call from clear across the floor looking through all of the other players when the official within a few feet of the play doesn't. I umpired baseball for a few years and if I was out of position to make a call I relied on the other umpires to make the call or asked for help. If you don't have a clear view how can you make the correct call?


Things I've noticed about fans.

1. Most casual fans don't know all the rules. Like there is no "over the back" foul. If a player is behind another player and both go up cleanly to get a rebound and the one behind gets the ball it is not a foul, yet you hear, "He's over his back" constantly at games. Now, if the player in back had his hand in the back of the front player or nudges him with his body to get him out of the way, then a foul should be called.

2. Over and back. As long as a player leaves his feet on his offensive side of halfcourt and gets the ball back into his territory without the ball or him touching the other side then it is not over and back. But yet you hear that being yelled all the time. On that same token, if a player leaves his feet on the defensive side of half court and catches the ball in mid air and then lands in his offensive territory it is over and back because he hadn't established position on his side of the court yet. A lot of fans don't understand this.

[tigerfan25]

Refs are horrible anymore! I'm starting to dislike basketball anymore because these refs clearly are one-sided in most games! I could b a ref next week if I wanted, which is anoter problem.. Anyone can be a ref anymore. I've seen alot of basketball and I have to admit each year it gets worse! A foul is a foul it shouldn't change depending on what school your playing at! Their are clearly very few refs who call an honest fair game anymore!

[Orange and Brown]

You know what I think the problem with officials are?......The Fans! The morona who think they can do a better job but won't! The idiot who thinks he knows the rules better than everyone else and could see the "Foul" from 60 feet away, The Woman who thinks that everyone is to rough with little jr.........The 70% of the fans who have no REAL knowledge of the rules of the game....My favorite ones are the ones who hear someone else start yelling about a call so they start yelling and they weren't even paying attention to the game........It shouldn't be hard to find a great ref, I mean h*ll there all sitting in the stands waiting to call the game.

[conehead]

Consistency is my only problem. If the officials are going to let them play, then it should be that way the whole game. If they're going to call every little foul, then it should stay that way. I don't care how they officiate--as long as it stays the same way the whole game. And if an official makes a call against a team because of their fans, they shouldn't be allowed to do a game again. They should be able to tune that stuff out, and if they can't, they have no business being out there. Oh, and there are more violations in games than fouls. It seemss like that's all that is call anymore unless it's completely obvious (and then they only call it sometimes ).

[3sportdad]

IMO the main problem is the lack of a system to ensure that the refs are doing their job. If you have a legitimate complaint about a ref the league tells you that your only recourse is to NOT vote them to officiate tournament games or NOT hire them. There is no system of checks and balances. Nobody is checking to ensure that they are doing their job. That's how "HOMER's" are made. And let's face it, we ALL know of at least one gym where you know going in that you gotta beat the officials.

If the leagues were to assign the officials for each game instead of each school hiring their own (as in the TVC) I think this would help the situation some. At the very least, it would cut down on the "HOMER's". Also if the AD from a school submits a video proof, put the offending official on probation. 2nd incident in one year - take his license. NO LICENSE - NO WORK! Nothing works faster than hitting the wallet.

I also think that a school should be told a few days in advance which refs are doing their game and be able to cut ONE ref from the crew without penalty to the school. I believe that in the TVC you can pay a refs wages for the night to NOT have him/her officiate a game. With a 2-3 day notice this should NOT be necessary.

If these adults are not capable of calling a game BY THE RULES, ON BOTH ENDS OF THE FLOOR, FOR A FULL 32 MINUTES, to the best of their ability, they should NOT be on the floor. If you are paid to do a job you are a professional. You should approach that job as a professional. ANY volunteer can be a HOMER and use the excuse that they didn't know better. If you have the credentials that say that you do know better there is no excuse to do any less than the best you can do. We ALL miss things in our jobs - assuming that we are all human. Missing something purposefully is unprofessional, child-like behavior. And if the home team needs those kind of calls to win - they should not be playing. If the home team coach expects those kind of calls - he should not be coaching. The officials NOR the coach is doing the kids any favors teaching them how to win with the right officials. Play by the rules, win by the rules, you can ALWAYS hold your head up high and NEVER have anybody saying that you had an unfair advantage. IMO it is better to lose by the rules than to win by bending them.

NUFF SAID

[bdubya]

When you make all of your field goals, all of your free throws, commit zero fouls and don't have a turnover in a loss, then you can complain about officiating.

Until then...

[bvmv4life]

The other night the fans of the home game i was at was chanting.....i got a rope,a tree,all i need is a referee.....lol....thought it was funny....

[M0TIVAT0R]

You know what I think the problem with officials are?......The Fans! The morona who think they can do a better job but won't! The idiot who thinks he knows the rules better than everyone else and could see the "Foul" from 60 feet away, The Woman who thinks that everyone is to rough with little jr.........The 70% of the fans who have no REAL knowledge of the rules of the game....My favorite ones are the ones who hear someone else start yelling about a call so they start yelling and they weren't even paying attention to the game........It shouldn't be hard to find a great ref, I mean h*ll there all sitting in the stands waiting to call the game.

Great post! A lot of times when the coach screams something, the fans join in even if they didn't see what happened. I have seen this happen, and many times when the coach admits he was wrong to the official, the fans kept screaming at the officials about the play they didn't even see. It is comical, and I believe that is why most officials ignore fans, and fan abuse never results in their team getting a call in their favor.

JL,
You talk about fans, what about coaches who cuss at kids and officials? I have heard it, the officials have heard and do nothing. Do you have a problem with that? The Christian comment is way off base, lumping all Christians in the same basket. And as for "going to the alter" when your conscience tells you, the only alter we have is Jesus Christ and we are lead by His Spirit. Do we mess up from time to time, you bet.

As soon as the officials tell a coach to sit down, the fans start screaming about that too.

Officials making calls against a team because of fans of that team voicing their displeasure is rediculous. Last I checked that is called cheating. An official will cheat a team for something a fan did?

An official should either tune it out or warn the fan. If the yelling is profane, insulting or threatening that fan should be tossed. Take it out on the fan not the team.

Hey, keep screaming at them and I am sure that will get them on your side. Most times fans screaming have no clue what is going on out on the court. It would take hours on here to explain that to you.

[boomer633]

You know what I think the problem with officials are?......The Fans! The morona who think they can do a better job but won't! The idiot who thinks he knows the rules better than everyone else and could see the "Foul" from 60 feet away, The Woman who thinks that everyone is to rough with little jr.........The 70% of the fans who have no REAL knowledge of the rules of the game....My favorite ones are the ones who hear someone else start yelling about a call so they start yelling and they weren't even paying attention to the game........It shouldn't be hard to find a great ref, I mean h*ll there all sitting in the stands waiting to call the game.

Funny how you can rip fans on a forum while complaining about them about criticising officials during a ball game. Pot meet kettle. Basketball is not a complicated sport and the rules do not require years of study to understand. There are good officials and there are bad officials and it doesn't take a genius to tell the difference.

[freethrow]

From what I understand it doesn't make any difference if a league has an assigner or not. AD's are going to hire buddies and the same with assigners, it's all a buddy system from what I hear about.

[LetsGoPSU]

haha this topic has bounced off all four walls, the floor, and the ceiling. First it was about how officials were treated and then it turned into a bashing of said officials.Very interesting reading.
Most officials are doing the best job they can do, "we cant see everything coach" is a very important sentence in every officials dictionary.
true story for you here tho,Was at my daughters girls basketball game a couple years ago. The opponents were good, and we were frustrated, at one point I counted a girl in the lane for 6 seconds,the next time down the floor it was 7, the third time down the floor, and this in a quiet gym I shouted , one, two, three, four ..the ref blew the whistle and threw me out hahaha.bottom line, never show up a ref when he has a whistle stuck up his rectum.

[OneBunter]

For all of you on this post, remember refs are human and they will make mistakes just as each of you and along with myself will do.

If you do not like the way todays officials are calling the games, then put your money where your mouth is. Find out when the next officiating class is, spend the money, go through the class, take the test and become a basketball referee, that is if you think you can do a better job.

See I have nothing in this, but someone made the comment if you cant handle it quit, well most of the good refs did quit not because they could not handle the heckling but due to how parents act at games.

Poll many coaches and they will tell you it is not the officials or the kids they have most of their problems with, but it is the parents that is the problem with today.

[M0TIVAT0R]

haha this topic has bounced off all four walls, the floor, and the ceiling. First it was about how officials were treated and then it turned into a bashing of said officials.Very interesting reading.
Most officials are doing the best job they can do, "we cant see everything coach" is a very important sentence in every officials dictionary.
true story for you here tho,Was at my daughters girls basketball game a couple years ago. The opponents were good, and we were frustrated, at one point I counted a girl in the lane for 6 seconds,the next time down the floor it was 7, the third time down the floor, and this in a quiet gym I shouted , one, two, three, four ..the ref blew the whistle and threw me out hahaha.bottom line, never show up a ref when he has a whistle stuck up his rectum.

Yes I saw a couple similar incidents just the other night. At one point a fan starting yelling, “3 seconds, she’s been in there for 10, can’t you count?” Then other fans joined in the fun, and before long they started counting 1, 2, 3, 4… Funny thing though, each time before they got to four either a shot was taken, or the player with the ball made a drive toward the basket. Yet the fans kept screaming and telling the officials how bad they were, and how dumb they must be since they clearly cannot count.

A while later that teams coach started screaming for a time out. The official ignored him. He screamed again, and the crowd joined in, and pretty soon they were screaming that the official was cheating their team since he refuses to call 3 seconds, and also refuses to give their coach a time out. Funny thing, the coach screaming for the time out was doing so while the other team had possession of the ball. He admitted his mistake, but the crowd just knew that “ref was cheating their team,” and let him know about it for the rest of the game. The players seemed to feed off the crowd, and also became disrespectful to the officials, as did the assistant coaches. It turned into a mess. I am sure that “ref” had a lot to do with the fact that their team lost by 37 points. But hey someone must be to blame for such an embarrasing loss, and it sure can't be the players or coaches.

[Grinder]

Poll many coaches and they will tell you it is not the officials or the kids they have most of their problems with, but it is the parents that is the problem with today.

Without parents how many coaches and officials would you need. If a coach is lumping all parents with one or two bad parents he is pretty stupid. At most schools the parents pay for their child to play, they take turns working concession stands to help the school raise money, they run their child to practice, buy shoes, pay for camps, donate money to the team and last but not least pay to watch their child play. I don't have a problem with a parent asking a coach a question if they do it in the right way, place and time. I myself have never had a question for a coach but I sure have ask my state reps a few, I guess they can start a thread about voters questioning them

[biggdowgg]

The other night the fans of the home game i was at was chanting.....i got a rope,a tree,all i need is a referee.....lol....thought it was funny....

I have heard that before somewhere....

[wink]

What's amusing to me is that with all this hoopla I have never seen an official change his mind once he made a call regardless what a player or fan said and the only time I have ever seen the winner of a game reversed was when an ineligible player was discovered later on.

So what's it all worth?

[MTSWNGRVSG]

Was talking with a man that officiated basketball games for many years a few weeks ago but does not anymore and he was talking about the first varsity game he did. He was working with a veteran official and remembered the meeting with the captains before the game. The veteran official introduced himself and his rookie partner. This statement is classic as to what he told the players, "You will make mistakes and we will make mistakes but I bet you will make more, gentlemen lets have a good game."

[KVDW]

Heck, Ive even made a mistake or three and Im neither a player, coach, or referee.

you must be a parent though. i've heard several on here call you a "mother".

[all-time athlete]

Here's my 2 cents......players should play, fouls being called or not bi**ing to the ref won't help, coaches should coach if they don't agree with the call voice the opinion and move on and continue to coach, fans should shut up and watch, sure voice your opinion on a bad call but don't intentionally try to get the refs attention you deserve to get tossed then, and finally officials officiate, call it how you see it that's why you do it and nobody else does, do your best and be as unbiased as humanly possible. The big problem I see is everybody from the players to the officials are just too sensitive just do your job. But I think this stems down from the sissification of this country over the past decade or so.