Down ref question

[favabeans]

Is the down ref responsible for keeping the rotation of each team? In both jv and varsity game tonight both once the down ref (different individuals) checked the lineup before each set, they never kept track of the rotation. The away team was out of rotation with the wrong server, served for a point and would have gone unnoticed unless their coach brought it to the ref's attention. The ref then walked over to the home book and asked who should be serving. Scorekeeper then asked if he didn't keep the rotation and his explanation was that don't do that any more, they go by what the home book had.

Am I missing something?

[Esully63]

The team in question also lost the serve and I believe the point also. Maybe I am thinking of club ball but if the coach ask for a rotation check I thought there wAs no penalty for the infraction. I thought there was only a penalty if the ref or other team caught the error. Please advise as I am usually confused enough with the officials and their calls! Lol

[favabeans]

Coach pointed out the rotation error to the ref. She didn't ask for a check.

[Esully63]

I didnt know that, thanks.

[Bastogne]

Who is responsible?
Player. Players on court. Team. Assistant coach(es). Coach. Scorekeeper. Home Scorekeeper. Libero Tracker. Official(s). Sounds like a lot of people missed it.

[favabeans]

Coach and visiting scorekeeper caught it. Home score keeper and libero tracker were both students who were learning the jobs.

My question is why wasn't the ref keeping the lineup? Every other high school game I have been to (many, many) the down ref always keeps a card that they use to keep track of the rotation. Maybe something has changed and we are just not aware of it. I will definately ask the refs the next game I am at.

[Esully63]

Who is responsible?
Player. Players on court. Team. Assistant coach(es). Coach. Scorekeeper. Home Scorekeeper. Libero Tracker. Official(s). Sounds like a lot of people missed it.

The players and coaches should be responsible for the purpose of avoiding the penalty for being caught out of rotation. The officials are there to ensure the rules are being followed. In a tight game a team could intentionally go out of rotation to get a better server to the line or keep a strong attacker at the net. I think Digger was wanting to know which official was responsible for making the call (therefore would be the one to keep track of it). I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise by your response that you are an official? I dont beleive Digger meant any disrespect by asking the question, she mearly look to get a better understanding of the game. If you are indeed an official, you should welcome this oportunity to educate as an educated fan is most generaly easier on the officials. If you have to say some one made a mistake and should have done this or they missed the call, hey everyone makes mistakes. I think officials would be respectd so much more if occasionally they uttered one simple word "ooops".

[Bastogne]

I was trying to make a point that everyone was at fault--including the officials.
Yes, the officials should know the rotation of the players--whether using a line-up card or not. Officials are being asked not to be so dependent on the line-up card. Some officials believe that means they have no responsibility in the rotation. No, it just means you should not be dependent on the card. Once the girl makes contact with the ball, the official should be notified the wrong player served. However, ultimately, it is the home scorekeeper, who is technically part of the officiating crew, to point it out, if missed by the official. The problem is solved right then, not later.

[Esully63]

I was trying to make a point that everyone was at fault--including the officials.
Yes, the officials should know the rotation of the players--whether using a line-up card or not. Officials are being asked not to be so dependent on the line-up card. Some officials believe that means they have no responsibility in the rotation. No, it just means you should not be dependent on the card. Once the girl makes contact with the ball, the official should be notified the wrong player served. However, ultimately, it is the home scorekeeper, who is technically part of the officiating crew, to point it out, if missed by the official. The problem is solved right then, not later.

Thank you. That was an excellent answer. The information is greatly appreciated!

[favabeans]

The problem with relying on the home bookeeper is that a lot of times said person is a student or someone who is not familiar with the book. They may not know what to do if the server is not the correct one. The girl last night told me that was only the second time she had kept the book. I know from experience it is extremely hard to find someone qualified to do this at each game. Another problem that arises is a team is on serve receive and are out of alignment. That is only something the refs can call, not the bookeepers. If a ref is not keeping a note of that, there is no way it can be called.

The only reason I posted about this is that I have never seen a down ref not keep a list of the alignment. Hopefully I won't see it again! lol

[Bastogne]

Don't hold your breath....