2018 Division Breakdowns

[Truth&fiction]

The D1 is insane . Come on OHSAA get to work and create true competitive balance . Some schools over 4-1/2 times larger than others . Teams forced to play in other districts . When will this madness stop? It should not be that difficult!

Smallest D1 in the SW has over 1000 less boys than the largest in the SW! That's just stupid.

DC,
I understand the concept of equity, yet OHSAA tournament basketball survived for years with only two size classes. Kentucky thrives with one. I guess age fogs my brain on this being an issue.

My age which is old says that if you have participated against the giant schools you would realize unfair balance . Back in the day you did not have schools with the count (9 thru 12 ) with over 1500. Some schools are broken up into 3 schools and their count is around 800 and growing . Yes back in the day there was Class A and Class B and that was corrected to 3 Div and then expanded to 4 . With the growth and the projected growth it's time to expand . A foggy mind ? It was and issue back in the day and the State stepped up and improved the competitive balance . I believe they will again .

[petesweaty]

Zane Trace moving up to D2 has nothing to do with competitive balance. It has to do with a sophomore class of 90+ boys. The class behind them has more like the normal 55 boys per class at ZT. They will go back to D3 in two years.

[trojandave]

93Bulldog: I'm not talking about last year's D3 regionals......I am referring to what we may see if the D3 Athens regional setup is 2 SE teams, 1 East team, and 1 Central District team. If that be the case, chances are really good that one of the 4 aforementioned schools will land a spot in Athens.

Just looking at the past though, in 2014, Bishop Ready from the Central District beat Valley 38-33 in the D3 Athens regional final. In 2015, Portsmouth lost to Columbus Eastmoor Academy 49-45 in the D3 Athens regional. So there have been teams from the Central District who have played in the D3 Athens regionals.

[trojandave]

In today's basketball, with transfers, open enrollment, competitive balance, and whatever else, having 4 or 5 divisions for basketball makes sense. Back many years ago, when there were only 2 classes, I remember Portsmouth playing Portsmouth East in sectional play. I don't think that was very fair at all. There were over 500 schools in each class, and that included small schools before the age of consolidation.

Today there is no shame at all in winning a state title in your division with 200 schools as opposed to 500 way back when. I don't think being the best out of 200 schools is watering down the product. One great thing about having more divisions is that it gives more schools a chance to reach the Final 4. Out of 800 schools in Ohio, less than 200 have ever made the state tournament. Of course that number has increased with the adding of more divisions since the OHSAA expanded to 3 classes in 1971 and 4 divisions in 1988.

The reality is that most schools in Ohio will never make the state tournament.......but the possibility of them making it to the state is more real today than ever before.......and that's not such a bad thing.

[Coach SLegg]

I think the "norm" in SE D3 is 2 SE, 1 Central, 1 Eastern. In 2009 Piketon defeated Columbus Grandview Heights in an OT thriller in the Regional Finals. Grandview had defeated I believe Buckeye Trail to advance to the Regional Finals while Piketon had defeated North Adams. Then in 2013 Piketon was defeated by Oak Hill in the Regional Semis while Ironton and Martins Ferry were in the other Regional Semis. It bounces back and forth every few years.
Huge difference for SE D3 when there's no Central District team in Regionals. Plus 3 SE D3 slots increases the chances to advance to the Regionals and then to the State.

[davewottle]

Boys Basketball
Division I, 199 teams (362 males or more from October 2016 enrollments plus Competitive Balance fac- tors)
Division II, 200 teams (211 to 361 males)
Division III, 200 teams (128 to 210 males)
Division IV, 200 team (127 or less males) Total Teams: 799
Representation from the district to the regional tournaments in boys basketball for 2018 would be: Division I: Combined Central, one East school (Dresden Tri-Valley) and two Southeast schools (Chillicothe and Logan) 4; Combined Northeast and one East school (Dover) 6; Northwest 2, and Southwest 4; Division II: Central 2; East 2; Northeast 5; Northwest 2; Southeast 2, and Southwest 3; Division III: Central 2; East 1; Northeast 4; Northwest 3; Southeast 2, and Southwest 4; Division IV: Central 1; East 1; Northeast 3; Northwest 6; Southeast 2, and Southwest 3.

[justpassinthru]

With all the chatter about "being fair", "wanting more divisions" etc. You all are sounding like the "soccer parents" - everyone gets a trophy. Life isnt fair. I guess it is not acceptable anymore to just represent your school, community, and family by just doing the best you can regardless of the outcome. Some where winning has kind of pushed those to the back ground.

[E High]

Somewhat agree with that . No more divisions . Doesn't need to be watered down like football ! Would like to see top 100 put in D-1 and other 3 divisions split up equally from there .

[GoBucks1047]

Somewhat agree with that . No more divisions . Doesn't need to be watered down like football ! Would like to see top 100 put in D-1 and other 3 divisions split up equally from there .

Here's a setup that you may like if OHSAA would rather remain at 4 Divisions as opposed to expanding to 5 Divisions, which I think OHSAA will eventually do with a 96 team D1 and D2-D5 divided equally.
D1: ~116 Teams - 29 Team Regionals - 7-8 Team Districts - 3 Teams 1st Round Bye in a Regional
Regionals Comparable to the 2 D3 Athens Districts Combined
D2-D4: ~228 Teams each - 57 Team Regionals - 14-15 Team Districts - 7 Teams 1st Round Bye in a Regional
Districts Comparable to either of the 2 D3 Athens District (14-15 Teams)
Currently: An Average of 14 Teams in a Regional receive a 1st Round Bye (assuming all regionals are equal; they aren't)

Division Breakdown
D1: 496-1373 - 117 Teams
D2: 241-495 - 228 Teams
D3: 139-240 - 227 Teams
D4: 12-138 - 227 Teams

Also looked at a 96 school D1, 112 school D1, and 128 school D1, but felt that a hybrid of 112 and 128 would be best, the most competitive, and most rewarding to the best teams in the regular season.

[trojandave]

I could definitely favor keeping 4 divisions ONLY IF the current D1 is divided up. GoBucks1047 has a good idea on divisional breakdown, although the 496 is still a little bit low for me. E high's proposal seems good, but I wonder what the 100 teams low number would be.

I do agree that someday soon the OHSAA will most likely expand to 5 divisions, with the largest division having a smaller number of schools than the other 4 divisions.

[Truth&fiction]

The only way I would be in favor of keeping 4 divisions would be take 600 plus in D1 and divide the other 3 up equally . 200 and below D4, 201 to 400 D3,401 to 600 D2. That is a whole lot more competitive BALANCED THAN 363 TO 1353. Come on OHSAA get this done . NO ACTION APPEARS UNACCEPTABLE . This will keep Ohio High School Basketball moving upward . Be the leader in fairness to all . Either expand or realign the 4 Div . I will not comment again on this unless I see more support ON COMPETITIVE BALANCE . Good luck to all the teams in the State. Hope all are having a productive June . There is none better than Ohio High School Sports . It's second to none !

[mhs95_06]

SEODAB school breakdown by divisions
D1 - 2 schools (to Central)
D2 - 20 schools
D3 - 28 schools
D4 - 21 schools

So how does the number of teams that advance to regionals in each division break down? On the girls forum, davewottle, posted the below, in last paragraph, which shows the girls get 1 in D2(18 schools), 2 in D3(29 schools), and 2 in D4(22 schools).

In 2017, boys got: 2 in D2(19 teams), 2 in D3(29 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams)
In 2017, girls got: 1 in D2(18 teams), 3 in D3(30 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams) D3 fell from 3 reps to 2

Representation from the district to regional tournaments in girls basketball for 2018 would be: Division I: Combined Central, one East school (Dresden Tri-Valley) and one Southeast school (Logan) 4; Combined Northeast and one Southeast school (Marietta) 6; Northwest 2, and Southwest 4; Division II: Central 2; East 2; Northeast 5; Northwest 3; Southeast 1, and Southwest 3; Division III: Central 2; East 1; Northeast 4; Northwest 3; Southeast 2, and Southwest 4; Division IV: Central 1; East 1; Northeast 3; Northwest 6; Southeast 2, and Southwest 3.

[GoBucks1047]

I could definitely favor keeping 4 divisions ONLY IF the current D1 is divided up. GoBucks1047 has a good idea on divisional breakdown, although the 496 is still a little bit low for me. E high's proposal seems good, but I wonder what the 100 teams low number would be.

I do agree that someday soon the OHSAA will most likely expand to 5 divisions, with the largest division having a smaller number of schools than the other 4 divisions.

If I remember correct, the low number for 96 was 528 where D1 was 16 districts of 6 teams each. The main reason for 96 was because the Northwest distict was able to squeeze out 6 teams for a district where 3-4 was only available under an 80 team D1. With the 96 team D1, the setup is roughly 6 districts for NE, 4 for SW, 5 for C, 0 for E/SE (no teams; Logan the closest w/ 500), and then the 1 for NW. A few teams would have to move districts to make the regionals equal in terms of the number of teams. Also with 96 teams, it can be a building block for if or when OHSAA expands to a 5th division and D2-D4 can just split evenly from 3 separate divisions into 4 separate divisions and D1 can be left as is.

I personally think regions should set up with districts to begin the process, determine how many regional qualifiers each district can have (basically starts out the same as the current process), and then move teams to make the number of teams per regional as equal as possible while being as geographical as possible and then set up districts and sectionals (D2-D4) from there.

Edit: #100's lower number, actually #98-100, is 518 at with #97 sitting at 523. #101 is at 512.

[GoBucks1047]

SEODAB school breakdown by divisions
D1 - 2 schools (to Central)
D2 - 20 schools
D3 - 28 schools
D4 - 21 schools

So how does the number of teams that advance to regionals in each division break down? On the girls forum, davewottle, posted the below, in last paragraph, which shows the girls get 1 in D2(18 schools), 2 in D3(29 schools), and 2 in D4(22 schools).

In 2017, boys got: 2 in D2(19 teams), 2 in D3(29 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams)
In 2017, girls got: 1 in D2(18 teams), 3 in D3(30 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams) D3 fell from 3 reps to 2

Representation from the district to regional tournaments in girls basketball for 2018 would be: Division I: Combined Central, one East school (Dresden Tri-Valley) and one Southeast school (Logan) 4; Combined Northeast and one Southeast school (Marietta) 6; Northwest 2, and Southwest 4; Division II: Central 2; East 2; Northeast 5; Northwest 3; Southeast 1, and Southwest 3; Division III: Central 2; East 1; Northeast 4; Northwest 3; Southeast 2, and Southwest 4; Division IV: Central 1; East 1; Northeast 3; Northwest 6; Southeast 2, and Southwest 3.

Once the divisions are set in one sport, the number of teams in a district within a division throughout the state represent how many teams a district can have represent in regionals and only 16 teams can advance to regionals in the entire state. The amount of district representation in regionals also varies from sport to sport. Some districts have more teams in a higher division of Girls than Boys and then vice-versa. Hope this helps you understand this better.

Edit: http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/bk/Rebounde ... dition.pdf
I had ran across this before and it'll better explain the process for you.

[Chieftain Fan]

The only way I would be in favor of keeping 4 divisions would be take 600 plus in D1 and divide the other 3 up equally . 200 and below D4, 201 to 400 D3,401 to 600 D2. That is a whole lot more competitive BALANCED THAN 363 TO 1353. Come on OHSAA get this done . NO ACTION APPEARS UNACCEPTABLE . This will keep Ohio High School Basketball moving upward . Be the leader in fairness to all . Either expand or realign the 4 Div . I will not comment again on this unless I see more support ON COMPETITIVE BALANCE . Good luck to all the teams in the State. Hope all are having a productive June . There is none better than Ohio High School Sports . It's second to none !

I like your post about the imbalance but not sure anyone of authority is paying attention . Is there anyone out there ?

[GoBucks1047]

The only way I would be in favor of keeping 4 divisions would be take 600 plus in D1 and divide the other 3 up equally . 200 and below D4, 201 to 400 D3,401 to 600 D2. That is a whole lot more competitive BALANCED THAN 363 TO 1353. Come on OHSAA get this done . NO ACTION APPEARS UNACCEPTABLE . This will keep Ohio High School Basketball moving upward . Be the leader in fairness to all . Either expand or realign the 4 Div . I will not comment again on this unless I see more support ON COMPETITIVE BALANCE . Good luck to all the teams in the State. Hope all are having a productive June . There is none better than Ohio High School Sports . It's second to none !

I like your post about the imbalance but not sure anyone of authority is paying attention . Is there anyone out there ?

Plus looking at 601-1373, there's only 72 schools with only 2 schools from the Northwest District meaning they would have to travel all the way to Cleveland or to Dayton for a 1st or 2nd round game from Toledo when with 96 schools in D1 (528+), you can get 6 schools and you can get 7-8 with a 112 D1 (501+). Also, a 401-600 D2 is only around 100 schools, 201-400 D3 is around 200 schools, and 12-200 schools is around 400 schools (can't remember the actual numbers other than D1). The idea sounds good on paper, but once the number of teams per division is realized, the idea doesn't look not as good as originally thought.

[Truth&fiction]

The only way I would be in favor of keeping 4 divisions would be take 600 plus in D1 and divide the other 3 up equally . 200 and below D4, 201 to 400 D3,401 to 600 D2. That is a whole lot more competitive BALANCED THAN 363 TO 1353. Come on OHSAA get this done . NO ACTION APPEARS UNACCEPTABLE . This will keep Ohio High School Basketball moving upward . Be the leader in fairness to all . Either expand or realign the 4 Div . I will not comment again on this unless I see more support ON COMPETITIVE BALANCE . Good luck to all the teams in the State. Hope all are having a productive June . There is none better than Ohio High School Sports . It's second to none !

I like your post about the imbalance but not sure anyone of authority is paying attention . Is there anyone out there ?

Plus looking at 601-1373, there's only 72 schools with only 2 schools from the Northwest District meaning they would have to travel all the way to Cleveland or to Dayton for a 1st or 2nd round game from Toledo when with 96 schools in D1 (528+), you can get 6 schools and you can get 7-8 with a 112 D1 (501+). Also, a 401-600 D2 is only around 100 schools, 201-400 D3 is around 200 schools, and 12-200 schools is around 400 schools (can't remember the actual numbers other than D1). The idea sounds good on paper, but once the number of teams per division is realized, the idea doesn't look not as good as originally thought.

So do you have a better break down ? Those numbers can be adjusted . There are 91 schools with 525 or more. Could the balance be split up among the other 3 division or add 1 more divisions and split the balance ? As for travel that has been an issue but a trip from Toledo to Dayton is not all that hateful or to Cleveland ( 2hr 10 min) Thanks for your input.

[GoBucks1047]

I like your post about the imbalance but not sure anyone of authority is paying attention . Is there anyone out there ?

Plus looking at 601-1373, there's only 72 schools with only 2 schools from the Northwest District meaning they would have to travel all the way to Cleveland or to Dayton for a 1st or 2nd round game from Toledo when with 96 schools in D1 (528+), you can get 6 schools and you can get 7-8 with a 112 D1 (501+). Also, a 401-600 D2 is only around 100 schools, 201-400 D3 is around 200 schools, and 12-200 schools is around 400 schools (can't remember the actual numbers other than D1). The idea sounds good on paper, but once the number of teams per division is realized, the idea doesn't look not as good as originally thought.

So do you have a better break down ? Those numbers can be adjusted . There are 91 schools with 525 or more. Could the balance be split up among the other 3 division or add 1 more divisions and split the balance ? As for travel that has been an issue but a trip from Toledo to Dayton is not all that hateful or to Cleveland ( 2hr 10 min) Thanks for your input.

Your Divisional Breakdown
D1 - 601+ - 75 Schools
D2 - 401-600 - 98 Schools
D3 - 201-400 - 250 Schools
D4 - 12-200 - 376 Schools

A thought to consider is that the kids have to ride on a bus for 4-5 hours round-trip, potentially on a school night. It is possible to schedule district games on Friday and/or Saturday nights only while other divisions have sectionals and then districts twice a week, but I don't believe some teams would want to travel 4-5 hours per game for 2-3 games just in districts when a district could be set up and save money on travel costs initially for schools that advance throughout districts, and then travel for regionals for 1-2 games followed by state. Seeing how the Northwest regional (more Northwest/East-Northeast) has it's own geographical district in D1, I think it is important that it remains rather than combine it with another district in the opposite side of the state, and then merge with a part of the Northeast districts and maybe even a part of the Central districts come regionals.

My thought on D1 is to cut from 199 in D1 to at least 96 in order to be sure everyone gets a geographical district that would require driving 45 minutes at most and divide the remaining schools into 3 divisions as even as possible (96, 234, 234, 235 - 100, 233, 233, 233 - 112, 229, 229, 229 - 116, 227, 228, 228), and it still leaves the possibility for the creation of a 5th division if OHSAA would wish to pursure it. Also worth noting that the top 96 teams is 528+, top 100 is 518+, top 112 is 500-501+ (111-113), and top 116 is 496 (115-117). In terms of a 4 division breakdown, I've debated between a 100 school D1 (I think separates the gap between big D1 schools and small D2 schools) and a 112 school D1 (creates the most balanced and most competitive bracket while keeping D1 over 500); still uncertain. If OHSAA expanded to a 5 division breakdown, I'd easily pick a 96 school D1 (96, 176, 176, 176, 176) with a 112 school D1 (112, 172, 172, 172, 172) coming in second. Of course, proven true using enrollment figures this year, all numbers won't be exactly as intended and will have to be adjusted from time to time.

[Coach SLegg]

Just to put a little history behind these discussions, here's something I found from researching Piketon basketball history in the Chillicothe Gazette...

1951-52 Ohio Boys' Basketball Season
The State of Ohio surveyed its schools to start the 1951-52 season. The results of the survey showed there were 1,089 boys' basketball teams, one of the largest numbers in the U.S. 244 were Class A (big school) and 845 were Class B (small school). These numbers were actually smaller than from in past seasons as some consolidation of schools had begun around the state.
Just to show how popular basketball had become locally, there were 100 local (non-high school) teams playing in the Chillicothe City Recreational League.

Like they say, history repeats itself...

[mhs95_06]

SEODAB school breakdown by divisions
D1 - 2 schools (to Central)
D2 - 20 schools
D3 - 28 schools
D4 - 21 schools

So how does the number of teams that advance to regionals in each division break down? On the girls forum, davewottle, posted the below, in last paragraph, which shows the girls get 1 in D2(18 schools), 2 in D3(29 schools), and 2 in D4(22 schools).

In 2017, boys got: 2 in D2(19 teams), 2 in D3(29 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams)
In 2017, girls got: 1 in D2(18 teams), 3 in D3(30 teams), 2 in D4(22 teams) D3 fell from 3 reps to 2

Representation from the district to regional tournaments in girls basketball for 2018 would be: Division I: Combined Central, one East school (Dresden Tri-Valley) and one Southeast school (Logan) 4; Combined Northeast and one Southeast school (Marietta) 6; Northwest 2, and Southwest 4; Division II: Central 2; East 2; Northeast 5; Northwest 3; Southeast 1, and Southwest 3; Division III: Central 2; East 1; Northeast 4; Northwest 3; Southeast 2, and Southwest 4; Division IV: Central 1; East 1; Northeast 3; Northwest 6; Southeast 2, and Southwest 3.

Once the divisions are set in one sport, the number of teams in a district within a division throughout the state represent how many teams a district can have represent in regionals and only 16 teams can advance to regionals in the entire state. The amount of district representation in regionals also varies from sport to sport. Some districts have more teams in a higher division of Girls than Boys and then vice-versa. Hope this helps you understand this better.

Edit: http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/bk/Rebounde ... dition.pdf
I had ran across this before and it'll better explain the process for you.

I understand that, but I'm wondering with the new numbers of 20/28/21, what the result is for how many teams in each division the SE district will get out to regional? Looks like girls lost one in D3.