SOC II Player of the Year

ManitouDan · Post by **ManitouDan** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:54 pm

everyone I've talked to says Arnett has had a great year. He seems to get the call every time Valley needs a big conversion

crab_apple4 · Post by **crab_apple4** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:55 pm

The back of the year award is vague... It says "back", not quarterback, not running back. Miller clearly has the numbers advantage on Howard, but Howard has been a great defensiveBack this season. His play on both sides of the ball, along with the head to head win and SOC title gives the award to Howard IMO. I could see a shared award for sure, but in no way is it an open and shut case for Miller.

As far as LOY goes, it's Hettinger without a doubt! McCray and Dunn would be the other lineman that could make the best case to be considered.

crab_apple4 · Post by **crab_apple4** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:57 pm

wink wrote:
dirt_cinders wrote:Miller may have the stats --- Howard the leadership.
I do wish they had a player of the year. When you look at what Arnett does on both sides of the ball it is very impressive.
He has taken a beating this year at running back and line backer.
Where did Howard go to school/play ball last year ?

Howard has always been at Valley. Both parents are Valley alums... He started at CB and rotated in at WR last season. He even started the Minford game two years ago as a sophomore when Yates was out with a concussion.

crab_apple4 · Post by **crab_apple4** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:59 pm

ManitouDan wrote:everyone I've talked to says Arnett has had a great year. He seems to get the call every time Valley needs a big conversion

Arnett has had a great season. He's been huge on both sides of the ball and has taken/given many beatings. You could make a very strong case for him... But a senior QB/CB that has starred on both sides of the ball is hard to ignore.

Post by **wobycat** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:33 pm

crab_apple4 wrote:The back of the year award is vague... It says "back", not quarterback, not running back. Miller clearly has the numbers advantage on Howard, but Howard has been a great defensiveBack this season. His play on both sides of the ball, along with the head to head win and SOC title gives the award to Howard IMO. I could see a shared award for sure, but in no way is it an open and shut case for Miller.

As far as LOY goes, it's Hettinger without a doubt! McCray and Dunn would be the other lineman that could make the best case to be considered.

Miller plays defense ad well. he is the best back this year in the soc. If Howard or Arnett are going to be considered then they better have close to those numbers. I've never seen the heisman go.to a guy with great leadership.

crab_apple4 · Post by **crab_apple4** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:43 pm

Howard plays excellent defense... He's not just on the field. While Miller's numbers at QB are excellent and worthy of the award, he's not the defensive player that Howard is. That's why I could see a share happening, because he's offensive numbers are outstanding.

And the Heisman very rarely goes to the guy with the numbers. For the last decade or so it has been to the best player on the best team, RG3 being the exception. I'm not arguing Miller's worthiness or that Howard is the winner because of leadership... I'm arguing that many times, the guy from the team that wins the league gets the award. I just think that Howard has a stronger case than most may believe.

Post by **wobycat** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:52 pm

crab_apple4 wrote:Howard plays excellent defense... He's not just on the field. While Miller's numbers at QB are excellent and worthy of the award, he's not the defensive player that Howard is. That's why I could see a share happening, because he's offensive numbers are outstanding.

And the Heisman very rarely goes to the guy with the numbers. For the last decade or so it has been to the best player on the best team, RG3 being the exception. I'm not arguing Miller's worthiness or that Howard is the winner because of leadership... I'm arguing that many times, the guy from the team that wins the league gets the award. I just think that Howard has a stronger case than most may believe.

there should be no share if that's the case then Dylan Miller should share it as well. he's a great leader and is known to stay after practice to work on his game. also put claxon in the mix as well. pound for pound the kid is the best route runner in the county. I mean come on. I get it, you are a valley fan, you want your player to win or share but if the awards don't go Miller-back....heddinger-lineman....Crabtree-coach...which I think is almost automatic when you when the soc..then there is no reason to give them warrant.

ManitouDan · Post by **ManitouDan** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:18 pm

so what do Howards numbers look like ?

crab_apple4 · Post by **crab_apple4** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:33 pm

Well I was playing devil's advocate, and trying to give a different perspective while also throwing in the historical relevance of the winning team getting most of the awards. I get it you're a Burg fan and believe the Burg players should get the award. All I know is during the Valley-Burg game, Miller was probably the 3rd best back that night. Should that count for something? I see your view point but it's more biased than the one I threw out there. Not wanting to argue, just giving a different side of things. Good luck tomorrow!

Jesco White · Post by **Jesco White** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:39 pm

ManitouDan wrote:so what do Howards numbers look like ?

Approximately 1,200 yards of total offense, split almost exactly 50/50. His numbers are nowhere near the numbers Miller has put up, as has been stated numerous times. He also doesn't throw the ball nearly as much as Miller does, nor has he turned it over as much. Miller is hands down the engine that makes the Pirates go. I don't see how that could be argued. And, I don't think crab_apple is arguing that. If you want to compare E Miller and Howard, how about comparing them head-to-head in the match-up between Burg and Valley? In that match-up, I believe they both threw for 69 yards (Miller with more attempts and more INT's). I can't recall their rushing numbers off the top of my head, but I want to say Miller had more. Both made some big plays in the game for their team. But, the FACT remains that those who ACTUALLY VOTE for the award tend to lean towards a kid who leads the conference champ. With that reason as a MAJOR FACTOR, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Howard and Miller could share the award. It has nothing to do with being a Valley fan and simply wanting our kid to win the award. None of us have a vote. And, none of us are claiming Howard is better than Miller.

Post by **wobycat** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:41 pm

crab_apple4 wrote:Well I was playing devil's advocate, and trying to give a different perspective while also throwing in the historical relevance of the winning team getting most of the awards. I get it you're a Burg fan and believe the Burg players should get the award. All I know is during the Valley-Burg game, Miller was probably the 3rd best back that night. Should that count for something? I see your view point but it's more biased than the one I threw out there. Not wanting to argue, just giving a different side of things. Good luck tomorrow!

One night, shouldn't take away the young man's accomplishments. He didnt play well that night for sure. Good luck to the Indians as well. Hopefully these two can duke it out again in a couple of weeks.

ManitouDan · Post by **ManitouDan** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:49 pm

from above ." His numbers are nowhere near the numbers Miller has put up, as has been stated numerous times."

actually Howards stats were not stated before , thats why I ask . anyway , a strong case can be made for Howard or Miller , I fully understand '" to the victor go the spoils" but Miller was really dynamic.

Hopefully both go deep and get a chance to hook up again.

seasick80 · Post by **seasick80** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:13 am

Just need some Howard stats! LOL

noles_fan · Post by **noles_fan** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:59 am

wobycat wrote:
crab_apple4 wrote:Well I was playing devil's advocate, and trying to give a different perspective while also throwing in the historical relevance of the winning team getting most of the awards. I get it you're a Burg fan and believe the Burg players should get the award. All I know is during the Valley-Burg game, Miller was probably the 3rd best back that night. Should that count for something? I see your view point but it's more biased than the one I threw out there. Not wanting to argue, just giving a different side of things. Good luck tomorrow!
One night, shouldn't take away the young man's accomplishments. He didnt play well that night for sure. Good luck to the Indians as well. Hopefully these two can duke it out again in a couple of weeks.

Maybe they will hold off on nameing BOY until they face off again.

Burg_Grad_77 · Post by **Burg_Grad_77** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:32 am

Eddie Miller- Wheelersburg Pirates

Rushing
133/963 yards, 6.6 YPC, Long - 56 yards, 14 TD's , 85 yards in losses, 878 net yards

Passing
145/223-11 Int's - 23 TD's, 1986 yards. Long- 77 yards, 198.6 per game, 164.00 pass eff, 65% comp rate

Total Offense
356 plays, 878 rushing, 1986 passing, 2864 total yards gained, 286.4 per game

You show me another player in the conference that can match these stats and who helped his team with his performance every week and then there may be a debate on who should get the award.

fbnut · Post by **fbnut** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:37 am

It's not all about stats. When Miller and Howard went head to head with everything on the line, in the biggest game of the year Howard was the best player on the field and he led his team to the win. Miller not only did not lead his team to the win but he also had some costly mistakes that cost his team in that ballgame.

The Oaf · Post by **The Oaf** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:39 am

Burg_Grad_77 wrote:Eddie Miller- Wheelersburg Pirates

Rushing
133/963 yards, 6.6 YPC, Long - 56 yards, 14 TD's , 85 yards in losses, 878 net yards

Passing
145/223-11 Int's - 23 TD's, 1986 yards. Long- 77 yards, 198.6 per game, 164.00 pass eff, 65% comp rate

Total Offense
356 plays, 878 rushing, 1986 passing, 2864 total yards gained, 286.4 per game

You show me another player in the conference that can match these stats and who helped his team with his performance every week and then there may be a debate on who should get the award.

Pretty impressive, no doubt. However, I'd like to see his stats against only SOC II league opponents. I believe Valley and West picked him off multiple times and I would love to see his conference rushing totals as well. Someone could clarify but isn't the POY award consideration only taken from league game stats? Still, hard to see this award going to anyone other than Miller, but stranger things have certainly happened.

Post by **wobycat** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:57 am

Miller's only bad game in the SOC came against Valley in which he ran for 168 yards and threw for 67. Which was the game's top leader in total yards. Against West he ran for 131 and passed for 263. 1 rushing td and 4 passing. 399 total passing and rushing with 4 tds against waverly. I know he put up over 350 yards on minford and believe he accounted for at least 5 scores. Northwest he only got a half of play there. So in just those four games, thats about over 1300 yards and over 10 td's in 4 games.

Arnett was the better player the night of burg and valley. But Miller was the best in the league. Thats why they call it the SOC player of the year and not the burg-valley match up of the year. I dont understand why this is an argument.

fbnut · Post by **fbnut** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:04 am

It's all about how you play in the big game.

Post by **wobycat** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:34 am

I always get sucked into these chat boards. It's like a mind trick someone is playing on me. I've wasted half the morning. God in heaven help me!

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