Refs at Convo

[Dr_Know]

I took a beating on the Valley Piketon thread about the quality of officiating. I didn't care who won, but I voiced my opinion and was raked over the coals. I also think the person that started this thread was acting like officials shouldn't be questioned and placing blame on coaches.

A few people have hit the spot about the arrogance of older officials. Along with a career change, dealing with arrogant look at me officials were the reason I quit officiating. A few of the younger officials listed are not ready for varsity action, but I have seen some very good young guys at the Convo watching instead of working. I've been very disappointed with the quality and inconsistent officiating that has taken place. Of course, as is the case most anywhere a few bad apples will spoil the bunch.

[eagles73Taylor]

Most good to great officials will tell you no whistle unless an advantage is gained. However, there were several no calls where there was no advantage gained, but definately major contact. The first was the Piketon player being shoved into the scorers table, yes Piketon retained possession, but that is the type of contact that gets kids riled up to the point of retaliation. The second was the two handed shove of the Piketon player from behind and a foul was called, but a intentional should have been. Overall, this is what you get at this level. I have watched State tourney games and they are physical.

[enigmaax]

So coming out of a timeout, the team told the crew if they didn't get a steal they were going to foul, to save as much time as possible. So what happens, they didnt get the steal and fouled, a simple foul, nobody fell to the floor, no one got shoved or hurt, but yet one of the refs called an intentional foul. So my question is was it intentional because they said they would foul or was it the ref saying; "Look at me! Look at me!" I bet it was the latter.

I believe on the play in question the defender extended his arms, giving the ball handler a little push with no play on the ball whatsoever. It wasn't "rough", per se, but I don't think the ref had much choice but to call an intentional foul based on the rules. Saying ahead of time that you want a foul to be called doesn't mean you can ignore the rules. I think that another example is grabbing a jersey away from the ball on an inbound play. You don't have to have criminal intent for that to be an intentional foul.

Overall, I'm not big on ref-blaming and it is really annoying when fans complain non-stop about every little thing that is or isn't called during a game. I will say, however, that it seems as though the consistency and quality has declined over the last 2-3 years as compared to the previous 25+ that I watched high school basketball. I don't often think that a ref is trying to be "the show", but I have thought multiple times that an individual or a crew either wasn't cohesive or couldn't decide how they wanted to call a game.

[Hitops2.0]

I took a beating on the Valley Piketon thread about the quality of officiating. I didn't care who won, but I voiced my opinion and was raked over the coals. I also think the person that started this thread was acting like officials shouldn't be questioned and placing blame on coaches.

A few people have hit the spot about the arrogance of older officials. Along with a career change, dealing with arrogant look at me officials were the reason I quit officiating. A few of the younger officials listed are not ready for varsity action, but I have seen some very good young guys at the Convo watching instead of working. I've been very disappointed with the quality and inconsistent officiating that has taken place. Of course, as is the case most anywhere a few bad apples will spoil the bunch.

so did I ...they bashed Valley fans for days after that game....guess it goes to show ya that we were'nt the only ones who thought the refs have been "declining in their abilities"

[hawkeyepierce]

I have been watching high school basketball for the last 25 plus years. I have noticed the difference between the "old days," if you will, and today. But, I believe it to be a combination of things. First, today's athlete is a lot stronger and a lot faster, so the tendency for games to be more physical happens. See our facebook page for pictures of fouls that were never called, especially the ones at the Convo. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vinton-Co ... 4163930972 Secondly, I do too believe, that there are a small segment of officials who are narcissistic and have a grandiose sense of self. The game could not function without them. However, that may be to match the big personalities of local coaches and officials may feel the need to adapt to overcome. Next, I believe that there is a small segment of officials who are apathetic and are somewhat unprofessional. For example, I saw at a game this year a referee come in carrying his bag over his shoulder, looking he just crawled out from under a bus. He was dirty, his clothes were dirty and unkempt, and he was unapologetic. Even during the game he had told some fans on the front row, he didn't know why they got so excited, saying; "It's just an high school basketball game." Well, to the kids on the floor, it is more than that, to the family, friends, and fans in the stands, it is more than that, to the school and administration, it is more than that. Have pride in what you do, do it to the best of your abilities. Lastly, I don't believe that there is enough quality individuals entering the officiating ranks. Young guys who had played high school basketball are getting into coaching, not officiating. I heard Commissioner Zaborniak once say at a coaches' clinic, the OHSAA is having trouble recruiting and retaining quality officials, for whatever the reasons.

[clevelandbrowns#1]

Just to let you know how all these officials are picked for these games. Out of the 26 officials (my count, I may have missed 1-2)) who worked the boy's district games at the Convo, 18 of them will work or have already worked a regional/state assignment this year. These same officials supposedly have received the most votes out of the Southeastern District. The coaches rate the officials after every game, this is supposedly a multiplier to the number of votes the officials receive. The votes these officials receive come from the AD's, referee's from each chapter, assigners from each league (who has them), and district board members. Each of these mentioned can list up to fifteen officials who they think are the best, then it is multiplied by their ratings from coaches. Throw in the girls games at the Convo and you have 28 officials that worked and 19 of those will either have already worked a regional /state assignment this year. Out of those 28 officials, 16 have worked or will work after this year a state semi-final or state championship game!!
Now, I have to say out of all the games that were called at the Convo this year, only 2-3 games were considered poorly officiated. That is not bad but it would be nice if they all were said too have been officiated well. We all know that that will never happen, because we are all subjected to fans, fellow officials and board members opinions on what is so called a good officiated game.
Last names of officials who worked there this year; Evans, Ragland, S. Jenkins, C. Jenkins, Dettwiller, Throckmorton, Phipps, Nichols, Merb, McDavid, Painter, Curley, B. Norris, J. Norris, S. Michael, M. Michaels, M. Blizzard, Orin, Napierkowski, Tabler, Derrow, Dugan, Swartzel, Hornsby, Hitchens, Brigati, Dotson, Settles
If I skipped any officials I didn't purposely mean to. If I missed any please add their last names.

[CharlieHustle]

Which officials worked the Piketon-Crooksville game?

[eagles73Taylor]

Dotson, Evans and Orin

[Dr_Know]

Just to let you know how all these officials are picked for these games. Out of the 26 officials (my count, I may have missed 1-2)) who worked the boy's district games at the Convo, 18 of them will work or have already worked a regional/state assignment this year. These same officials supposedly have received the most votes out of the Southeastern District. The coaches rate the officials after every game, this is supposedly a multiplier to the number of votes the officials receive. The votes these officials receive come from the AD's, referee's from each chapter, assigners from each league (who has them), and district board members. Each of these mentioned can list up to fifteen officials who they think are the best, then it is multiplied by their ratings from coaches. Throw in the girls games at the Convo and you have 28 officials that worked and 19 of those will either have already worked a regional /state assignment this year. Out of those 28 officials, 16 have worked or will work after this year a state semi-final or state championship game!!
Now, I have to say out of all the games that were called at the Convo this year, only 2-3 games were considered poorly officiated. That is not bad but it would be nice if they all were said too have been officiated well. We all know that that will never happen, because we are all subjected to fans, fellow officials and board members opinions on what is so called a good officiated game.
Last names of officials who worked there this year; Evans, Ragland, S. Jenkins, C. Jenkins, Dettwiller, Throckmorton, Phipps, Nichols, Merb, McDavid, Painter, Curley, B. Norris, J. Norris, S. Michael, M. Michaels, M. Blizzard, Orin, Napierkowski, Tabler, Derrow, Dugan, Swartzel, Hornsby, Hitchens, Brigati, Dotson, Settles
If I skipped any officials I didn't purposely mean to. If I missed any please add their last names.

I know it is supposed to be voted on, but we all know its not what you know it is who you know. I've read your other posts on here, and I'm pretty sure I know who you are... You do an excellent job, but you would have to agree that the best officials are not getting the best games. Officials have always politic-ed for games. It's been that way for years. Reading that list, there are some darn good officials but there are a few guys are confrontational and vindictive. I would like to see crews instead of individual officials being evaluated, so guys like you don't have to work with guys that make you look bad. You're one of the best, more officials like you are needed.

[smurray]

That didn't take too long for the names to come out, lol. The 3 doing the Piketon/Crooksville game are normally better than a few on that list so I'm not sure what happened that night.

[pfloyd]

“I asked a ref if he could give me a technical foul for thinking bad things about him. He said, of course not. I said, well, I think you stink. And he gave me a technical. You can't trust em.” - Jim Valvano

[eagles73Taylor]

That didn't take too long for the names to come out, lol. The 3 doing the Piketon/Crooksville game are normally better than a few on that list so I'm not sure what happened that night.

Their names are announced before each game! lol Not exactly national security level needed to find out smurray, you announce them pregame every game! lol

[Ironman92]

I saw the one this year do a girl's game and he completely controlled the game and everything about it. He normally is pretty good but he was just terrible that game....the next big game I saw him he was excellent.

[Grinder]

I have been watching high school basketball for the last 25 plus years. I have noticed the difference between the "old days," if you will, and today. But, I believe it to be a combination of things. First, today's athlete is a lot stronger and a lot faster, so the tendency for games to be more physical happens. See our facebook page for pictures of fouls that were never called, especially the ones at the Convo. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vinton-Co ... 4163930972 Secondly, I do too believe, that there are a small segment of officials who are narcissistic and have a grandiose sense of self. The game could not function without them. However, that may be to match the big personalities of local coaches and officials may feel the need to adapt to overcome. Next, I believe that there is a small segment of officials who are apathetic and are somewhat unprofessional. For example, I saw at a game this year a referee come in carrying his bag over his shoulder, looking he just crawled out from under a bus. He was dirty, his clothes were dirty and unkempt, and he was unapologetic. Even during the game he had told some fans on the front row, he didn't know why they got so excited, saying; "It's just an high school basketball game." Well, to the kids on the floor, it is more than that, to the family, friends, and fans in the stands, it is more than that, to the school and administration, it is more than that. Have pride in what you do, do it to the best of your abilities. Lastly, I don't believe that there is enough quality individuals entering the officiating ranks. Young guys who had played high school basketball are getting into coaching, not officiating. I heard Commissioner Zaborniak once say at a coaches' clinic, the OHSAA is having trouble recruiting and retaining quality officials, for whatever the reasons.

Wow I can't image why OHSAA is having trouble recruiting and retaining quality officials especially after just read three pages of people blasting officials. LOL

[Sid Farkus]

It's kind of a catch 22 as a ref. if you call too much people complain about calling ticky tack fouls and game going too long. You don't call enough and people complain its too rough.
I love when you do call a foul for rough play and fans complain it was a foul and you as a ref are letting things get out of hand! Hey, it was called a foul. Quit complaining !

What a ref should do is call fouls if they are fouls. A hate when refs worry about disrupting the flow of a game so they let one team play too rough. This is basically punishing teams that have good skills and play good defense. The game is getting out of hand and obviously most people feel that way. In the 80's if someone was hacked while shooting a 3 footer it was a foul. Now it isn't. It just makes no sense to me.

[Spartan]

Just call the game according to the rules than nobody can complain with any legitimacy. Lots of complaints presently aren't valid, but lots are, especially in regards to rough play.

[transplant]

I just want refs to be consistant. If its a foul, call it on both ends. i have watch a lot of the games at the convo this year and havnt had any one team in particular to watch. Overall the officaiting has been sub par in my book. But, it could be worse, we could have officials like Ed Hightower all the time. haha

[smurray]

Eagles73, I was going to ask who they were but figured it would be posted before long, that's the reason I said that.

[Sid Farkus]

I just want refs to be consistant. If its a foul, call it on both ends. i have watch a lot of the games at the convo this year and havnt had any one team in particular to watch. Overall the officaiting has been sub par in my book. But, it could be worse, we could have officials like Ed Hightower all the time. haha

No! Some refs' idea of being consistent is not calling anything. That's the problem, too many refs aren't calling anything. I've seen consistent refs who I still think are terrible.

[eagles73Taylor]

Eagles73, I was going to ask who they were but figured it would be posted before long, that's the reason I said that.

K, when I first put it on there I thought maybe I shouldnt, but then I thought that they do announce their full names anyway! lol