Referees

[kingofthegame]

I know being a referee at any level is a thankless job being that you can never please everyone. Also, just to put it out there, I am not someone who has been ejected, received a technical or even been warned for any comments towards a referee. Otherwise, no sour grapes here. With that said, I am just wondering if I am imagining things when I come to the conclusion that the quality of referee work on average in this area is not quite up to par with years ago. I'm not just talking about the quality of game calling either, even though that is less than acceptable. For example, on two instances, I heard from the stands a ref use profanity towards a coach.
This year, I have watched varsity boys, varsity girls, junior girls, junior boys and biddy league games. Throughout the games, I have seen more dialogue with fans from officials than any other year in the past. Most of it one-sided and threatening on the part of the ref over a fan expressing displeasure with a call. The fans weren't cursing or calling the ref names or anything personal. Just what I would consider usual chatter (e.g. "Over the back," "3 Seconds," "That was a foul," etc.) In my opinion, they need to learn to ignore this type of stuff and let the kids play ball. I've seen ejections at every level and also lengthy stoppages in play to "discuss" with a fan the game calling. This is a distraction and unnecessary.
On the other hand, the steady, experienced referees in our area continue to do an excellent job. It is unfortunate that they get a bad name because of some of these rotten apple types who give everyone a bad name. But, the number of incompetents are increasing greatly from the sample size that I have seen. A suggestion would be to retrain on ignoring what is said in the stands unless it is inappropriate for children to hear. When something is inappropriate, handle the matter quickly and concisely - don't bicker and argue and feel the need to explain to everyone why you're right. Another suggestion, along the same lines, no referee should curse period. That's unprofessional on any level. Finally, understand that you're getting paid to referee the ballgame, not be the "boss" or "teach someone a lesson." Just do your best, get your check and head home. I remember in the old days, refs would park by the exit doors and be gone before the teams even got to the lockers. Some of the new guys could learn a lot from the old days and probably from the guys that did their job back then.

[M0TIVAT0R]

I know being a referee at any level is a thankless job being that you can never please everyone. Also, just to put it out there, I am not someone who has been ejected, received a technical or even been warned for any comments towards a referee. Otherwise, no sour grapes here. With that said, I am just wondering if I am imagining things when I come to the conclusion that the quality of referee work on average in this area is not quite up to par with years ago. I'm not just talking about the quality of game calling either, even though that is less than acceptable. For example, on two instances, I heard from the stands a ref use profanity towards a coach.
This year, I have watched varsity boys, varsity girls, junior girls, junior boys and biddy league games. Throughout the games, I have seen more dialogue with fans from officials than any other year in the past. Most of it one-sided and threatening on the part of the ref over a fan expressing displeasure with a call. The fans weren't cursing or calling the ref names or anything personal. Just what I would consider usual chatter (e.g. "Over the back," "3 Seconds," "That was a foul," etc.) In my opinion, they need to learn to ignore this type of stuff and let the kids play ball. I've seen ejections at every level and also lengthy stoppages in play to "discuss" with a fan the game calling. This is a distraction and unnecessary.
On the other hand, the steady, experienced referees in our area continue to do an excellent job. It is unfortunate that they get a bad name because of some of these rotten apple types who give everyone a bad name. But, the number of incompetents are increasing greatly from the sample size that I have seen. A suggestion would be to retrain on ignoring what is said in the stands unless it is inappropriate for children to hear. When something is inappropriate, handle the matter quickly and concisely - don't bicker and argue and feel the need to explain to everyone why you're right. Another suggestion, along the same lines, no referee should curse period. That's unprofessional on any level. Finally, understand that you're getting paid to referee the ballgame, not be the "boss" or "teach someone a lesson." Just do your best, get your check and head home. I remember in the old days, refs would park by the exit doors and be gone before the teams even got to the lockers. Some of the new guys could learn a lot from the old days and probably from the guys that did their job back then.

Some good points, and I will add that fans and coaches should act just as sportsmanlike as you are asking of the officials. Unfortunately, they rarely do. Everyone feels they have a right to say whatever they want to an official, yet the official is suppose to "ignore" all comments and just call the game. Well if you find a human being who can ignore every comment ever made to him or her, please let us know cause I doubt there is one living. So what we have are a bunch of human beings that get screamed at, and no matter how hard they try they can't ignore it so therefore the judgements they make may be affected by said screaming. That leads to a less than perfectly called game, and more complaints by folks like yourself. So I say to fans and coaches, shut up and leave the officials alone so they can do their best. Unfortunately, I am beginning to think that is not humanly possible either.

[WIFAN-22]

Referees should be able to take the complaints about a particular call. AS LONG AS their is no personal abuse (name calling, cursing) towards the referee. I heard a fan call a ref and idiot the other night, and he was ejected. I was perfectly ok with that. He should not have to listen to personal abuse, but I do not see the harm in complaining about a call. We as fans have to tolerate the occasional bad call you make, you should have to listen to the complaints about those calls. Because you do make mistakes, all of us do.

I have seen at least 2 games this year that were well below the standard of a good called game. But for the most part besides a call or two here and there, I have seen good officials this year.

[M0TIVAT0R]

Referees should be able to take the complaints about a particular call. AS LONG AS their is no personal abuse (name calling, cursing) towards the referee. I heard a fan call a ref and idiot the other night, and he was ejected. I was perfectly ok with that. He should not have to listen to personal abuse, but I do not see the harm in complaining about a call. We as fans have to tolerate the occasional bad call you make, you should have to listen to the complaints about those calls. Because you do make mistakes, all of us do.

I have seen at least 2 games this year that were well below the standard of a good called game. But for the most part besides a call or two here and there, I have seen good officials this year.

So you get to decide if a call is a bad one or a good one then? Hmmm, maybe you should be officiating then? Just sayin...

[hawkeyepierce]

My opinion has been for the last several years that the QUALITY of officiating has dropped significantly. I heard a member of the OHSAA explained that they are not getting the perceived ideal applicant to become licensed officials, they were simply lacking in QUANTITY of knowledgeable applicants. He further explained, that it was their desire to have young men and young women who have played the game to show interest, however, more and more of them are turning to coaching. And because of that, I believe you see the inconsistency in officiating, more and more blunders, the lack of commitment and professionalism in some of today's officials.

All a coach ever wants is for the official to show up on time, be professional, and have pride in their craft. I think, sometimes too much we see the acrimonious relationship between coach and official due to those aforementioned factors. How many times have officials been late, or they find a replacement, or not show up at all (it happens more than you think). I have seen officials come to games wearing a rival school's t-shirt or sweatshirt, (really?). I have seen officials half-@$$ their way through a game, not getting up and down the floor, not reporting to the table, terrible mechanics, and (my personal favorite) calling fouls from 70 feet away (just get in position already). Because of this, the coach/official relationship becomes estranged and when that happens, the complexion of the game can change in adverse way. And it shouldn't, but it does.

I watched a game Friday, Vinton County and Alexander, two teams that does not have the reputation to be overly physical or "thuggish." However, there were 46 fouls called between the two teams; 27 for Alexander and 19 for Vinton County. In those 46 fouls were 11 offensive fouls called. Now, either these two teams all-of-sudden became undisciplined and non-fundamental or the officials have misinterpreted the rule. My guess, it was the latter. In a game that the two teams combined to score 75 points, Vinton County 39, Alexander 36, it took almost two hours to play. That is simply ridiculous.

[spartans_fan]

Hawkeye,

I think you are dead on with your assessment. I was at the same game. The crew was pretty good, but inconsistent. I would love to see a league assigner for the TVC. It may not help the poor officiating in Jr. High games, but it would help a great deal at varsity games. Get the better rated officials at the big games.

[M0TIVAT0R]

Hawkeye,

I think you are dead on with your assessment. I was at the same game. The crew was pretty good, but inconsistent. I would love to see a league assigner for the TVC. It may not help the poor officiating in Jr. High games, but it would help a great deal at varsity games. Get the better rated officials at the big games.

Hawkeye's statement about "All a coach ever wants is for the official to show up on time, be professional, and have pride in their craft" could not be further from the truth with some in the TVC, which is why you will probably never see a league assigner. It is also why some get chased from the court at the end of games by some coaches. What Hawkeye sees as too many fouls another fan would see as not enough if all those calls were not made. Many fans are unreasonable and are not happy, no matter how the game is called, unless their team wins. Some coaches as well. So how attractive is officiating to those young prospects that Hawkeye mentioned? I can hear them now, "man I liked how my coach chased those refs off the court and cussed them in the locker room." And, "yea that was great, and did you hear my dad screaming at them the whole game? Heck let's go get our officiating license when we graduate so we can get screamed at, chased, and cussed."

[kingofthegame]

I agree that no one should endure verbal abuse directed at them personally as Indian Fan mentioned above. Call the guy an idiot and get kicked out. Understandable. However, I happened to witness a 3rd and 4th grade tournament this weekend where a young lady received a technical for not waiting on the ref to motion her into the game to sub during a dead ball. Then, in the same tournament, another ref screams at a coach "I'm sick of taking your crap" with his finger pointed after giving the guy a technical for saying "the ball went out on black, it should be white ball" in a non-threatening tone. The coach who asked about the out of bounds call was sitting calmly on the bench beside four 8-9 year old girls when the ref screamed at him. Isn't that a nice picture for the kids to witness?

Yes, the fans, coaches and players should treat others with dignity, agreed. However, referees should view themselves as paid professionals and take pride in taking the so called "high road." Fans just pay their money to get into the game, refs are licensed and compensated to perform their duties in a certain manner. That's the difference.

[hawkeyepierce]

Motivator, while appreciate your opinion, I respectfully disagree. First, I cannot deny that there have been officials being "chased" from the court or "cussed" in the past, in fact, I have seen it too. However, that is a matter of perception. One perceives to being correct and the other to being screwed, thus, some chasing and cussing. I have seen it both ways, a coach gets angry because his perception they were screwed and officials so bad or intentional with malice to their officiating that also results in chasing and cussing. I have seen a nearly full pop bottle hurl from the top row at an official. I have seen a lot of things.

I have talked to several of the coaches in the TVC and some I consider good friends, and they all say the same thing; be on time, be professional, and have pride in what you do. Therefore, I am not sure what you state could be untrue about that. We will never have an assigner because our league is archaic and pathetic.

There will always be people in the stands and their perception will certainly never change, unfortunately, you only hear the most idiotic and asinine people during games. Those that understand the game, cheer and support their team and their player and usually do not engage in official bashing.

[Regulator]

I will give my two cents. Most referees are out of shape and this causes them to be out of position. Also many don't hustle!!!! Get in position is all I ask! Just like anything else, there are bad ones, there are average ones, and there are good ones. Very few great ones.
Now, next thing is , it still doesn't give coaches and fans the right to yell at them all game, whether they are disrespectful or not. Many times this just escalates the tension. It doesn't help!!!
Coaches lose track of what they are doing , which is coaching! Players play, coaches coach, and fans cheer! Enough said.

[eagles73Taylor]

First let me set my resume, 3 years varsity asst. coach, 8 years AD and in that span I can honestly say I have only ran across maybe 5 officials that were thrown into a situation that was above their head. These situations pop up, a ref might get sick or hurt or have a family obligation and the next thing you know you have 2 or 3 rookie officials thrown together which causes problems.

Like most have said, there are good, average and bad officials and these officials have good and bad games. I will say this, I haven't yet ran across an official who doesn't care about their craft and getting better at it. However, I have met more than my fair share of egos and attitudes in the ranks as well.

[athens78]

biddy league don't count that's not even close to High School, coaching, fans or refs. the coaches are daddy's the fan are really idiots and the refs well that's all they normally do. As far as High School goes most older refs are getting out due to several things, injury from long time officiating on hard floors, and young kids are just doing JV and Freshman or Junior High because there is no money in it. Theyd rather do a freshman and JV game get more money and stay local. Plus if they are just married most women aren't putting up with them being gone 50 nights a year especially if they have kids. With gas at 3.50 a gallon the cost of a car and insurance there is no money in it at the varsity level especially for some of the quality older officials that travel to Cincy, Columbus, Dayton and all around to ref, they do it because they love the game. it should be a minimum of 70.00 a game and they still wouldn't make money at it.

[Blackcobra]

People do get to decide if a call is good or bad, to suggest that most fans aren't educated enough about basketball is insulting. You shouldn't act crazy though, an occasional voice of disagreement should be expected. Its not an operation or physics. Its basketball, pretty cut and dry. I do feel there are many inconsistencies that often frustrate the onlooker. Some refs still allow the slower player to hold on defense while others do not. City refs allow more 2 step "euro" move( illegal) while others do not. Modern athletes can "hop step" through gaps in defenses a long way, at 2 feet there is no call, if a kid can jump 6 feet to a 2 footed stop you will hear a whistle, which is a wrong call, generally it just looked odd. Wish there was more consistency.

[Blackcobra]

I do feel they need to pay referees 80.00 a game.

[Raider6309]

If its a big game, schools should pay money for good outside refs. SEO refs are very inconsistent, either call it close or let them play

[Dr_Know]

Speaking of referees, I started off at the Burg-Minford game last night but decided to head to Oak Hill at halftime. With the early start in Wheelersburg and my Pirates only scoring 13 points in the first half, I took off to watch Valley and Oak Hill. I got there midway through the 1st and the Indians came out hot and were playing well, but the bald headed official from Glouster was calling the game and he let things get crazy. I have watched a few Valley games the past year or so that he has called, and this guy has seemed to stick it to them every time. It was very easy to see that he doesn't care for Valley's coach and his refusal to call contact led to a physical 3rd quarter. It is one thing to not make a call here or there but when the contact is leading to bodies flying around and intentional fouls, it is on the official to keep things under control. From my officiating days, this guy has the reputation for wanting to get at coaches that he does not like. On top of it all, he's a terrible official. I know that topics about officials can be seen as whining or sour grapes, but getting guys like him out of the business would go a long way to improving the reputations of officials.

[Ted Striker]

Officiating isn't the greatest here in Indiana, either.

My team was on the receiving end of a more than questionable call last week. One of our guards was pressuring the opposing team's point guard just above the top of the key. Our defender got a deflection, hitting the referee (who is standing 3 feet onto the court) in the chest. The ball ricocheted off his chest into our defender's arms and we're off to the races, right? Wrong. Out of bounds. Their ball. I voiced that he was standing on the court and was technically in play - by rule "part of the court". He said that wasn't a rule, and gave me a technical. In the words of Ron Burgandy, "that escalated quickly".

Officiating will never be what we want it to be. There are the guys who try hard and give it their best, only to come across a coach who demoralizes him. There are d-bags who think people pay $5.00 to see him run around in stripes and blow his Fox-40. Lose/lose. My least favorite referee, though? The bleachers.

[athens78]

Those gosh darn refs from Glouster!!! They are always after the Athens coach to or so that's what you here in the paper. According to most of these things on here Athens and Valley never lose a game unless it the refs and they are normally from Glouster!!! Well wait Valley lost to Athens at Chesapeake were those refs from Glouster also???? That's why it went double overtime they couldn't decide which one should win. Bahahahahahahai

[Blackcobra]

It isn't legal for a school/AD to pay more for referees who are known to be more consistent is it? Anyone know?

[M0TIVAT0R]

Those gosh darn refs from Glouster!!! They are always after the Athens coach to or so that's what you here in the paper. According to most of these things on here Athens and Valley never lose a game unless it the refs and they are normally from Glouster!!! Well wait Valley lost to Athens at Chesapeake were those refs from Glouster also???? That's why it went double overtime they couldn't decide which one should win. Bahahahahahahai

Now wait a minute here, I thought the rule was if you have success in the tournament that proves you do not hire refs who favor your team? At least that is what someone said on another thread. So, didn't Oak Hill have some tournament success a few years back? Just sayin...