Division 2 Tournament Southeastern

[smurray]

A couple of points I would think everyone would agree on.

1. When evaluating a team their entire resume is relevant. All losses are NOT equal. Just as beating a really good team is a huge plus; losing to a relatively weak or mediocre team should be factored in also.

2. The quality of the team you play is what should count. The "Division" in which they reside should not be taken into consideration. There are strong D3 and D4 teams; there are weak or average D2 teams.

Totally agree

[LucasDavenport]

A couple of points I would think everyone would agree on.

1. When evaluating a team their entire resume is relevant. All losses are NOT equal. Just as beating a really good team is a huge plus; losing to a relatively weak or mediocre team should be factored in also.

2. The quality of the team you play is what should count. The "Division" in which they reside should not be taken into consideration. There are strong D3 and D4 teams; there are weak or average D2 teams.

I agree with this. It’s why I created that index to compare teams.

I simply told you how the SEODAB asks coaches to enter their info.

Waverly 12-6
D1 0-1 lost @Chillicothe
D2 3-1. Good wins over Jackson and Athens. Loss to Washington. Also win over MT.
Waverly is 8-3 vs D3 this year. 6 of those wins were not against good teams. 1 win vs Oak Hill and 1 win that’s ok is Piketon.

The 3 losses are against good D3 teams.

Valley and Minford being down and Northwest and West being well... Northwest and West is something you can’t change.
D4 1-1. Loss at home vs South Webster. Win @ South Webster.
It’s on the total resume where I feel Waverly comes up a little short.

WCH 12-6
WCH is 1-2 vs D1. Win vs Chillicothe
8-3 vs D2. Losses to Jackson x2 and Logan Elm and wins over Waverly, Greenfield, @VC, @Unioto, and also Hillsboro, Circleville and MT. The last 3 schools would be the mediocre or not good D2 you refer to.
2–1 vs D3. Win over Adena. (Equal to Oak Hill.). Lynchburg Clay - not good and Loss to Springfield Shawnee.
1-0 vs D4. Whiteoak.


Jackson turns in

13-6

D1 0-1. Lost to Chillicothe
D2 10-3. Losses @Waverly and @Greenfield and @Hillsboro.
Wins over Washington x2 and Greenfield and Unioto and VC @Bloom Carroll. Hillsboro. The other 3 are vs bad D2 teams.
D3 3-2. Losses to Fairland and Burg. Decent/good win over Meigs. Also beat Minford and Wellston.

You can’t simply discount Greenfield who has 7 losses but 2 are vs Chillicothe.

They beat Jackson and ZT at home. Lost @Jackson and @ Washington.

This is how even these 4 teams are. Take away the Chillicothe losses.

Jackson 13-5
Washington 12-5
Greenfield 12-5
Waverly 12-5.

And I think depending on your perspective you can twist this thing anyway you want. That’s as honest as I can get.

That’s why my first post last night said

Time to find out who your friends are.

[smurray]

Waverly’s 3 D3 losses are to two teams with a combined 1 loss (Eastern with a loss first game of the year to Oak Hill and Wheelersburg who is undefeated and would probably beat any of the teams in the Southeastern Sectional).
That matters.....

[toast]

LusasDavenport: Honest assessment...thanks!

Just not a nickels worth of difference between Waverly, Jackson, WCH and Greenfield. I'm thinking Oak Hill may be better than Adena but hard to tell.

Just don't see much difference in Jacksons and Waverly resume. Granted some of the SOC 2 schools are weak. Jackson did lose to Hillsboro. Waverly worst loss is to Webster rated 26th. Webster would be rated higher is Blevins had not missed several games with an injury.

Do you rate Jackson over Waverly when we beat head to head by 11 and were up by 18 or 20? (When total resumes are pretty darn close)

[toast]

Waverly’s 3 D3 losses are to two teams with a combined 1 loss (Eastern with a loss first game of the year to Oak Hill and Wheelersburg who is undefeated and would probably beat any of the teams in the Southeastern Sectional).
That matters.....

Excellent point! Four of our six losses are to teams with a combined record of 49-6. Those teams are rated #1....#2.....and #6 in southeast Ohio. The other two losses are to #16 Court House and #26 Webster (OT loss)

[joemama]

Springfield Shawnee is D2

[Abe Froman]

Honestly can't see how Waverly isn't seeded higher than Jackson based on objectively looking at the above.

[Vik]

Honestly can't see how Waverly isn't seeded higher than Jackson based on objectively looking at the above.

I didn’t see Wav/Jack game but I watched Jack take Burg to OT and Jackson had ball for final shot to win it. I just looked at Wav/Burg scores and hard to understand how a Burg person could think Waverly was definitely the better team. Burg just anhilated Waverly at Waverly. Pretty clear Waverly just played a top game for them.

I think it’s very close. Sad my devils lost Loveday or this sectional be even more fun. Basically 4 teams trying to avoid the 4/5 slots. The 2 and 3 seeds aren’t going to lose. I think Gallia’s style and what they have matches up best with Waverly but would be good with Court House to.

1. Zane
2. Jack
3. Wav
4. Wash
5. Mc
6. GA
7. Unioto
8. Hills
9. RV
10. Trace

I think that’s how the voting will go, no really my exact thoughts

[HamPorter]

I think Greenfield is the 5. I’m not sure on the other 3, I’d probably go Jackson, Washington, Waverly, but would honestly be fine with any combination. I think the 3 is probably the most desireable spot, even though Gallia seems like a bit of an unknown, especially since they are to the Far East of the rest of the contenders in this sectional

[LucasDavenport]

Guys I’m not sure.

I can make a point for all 4.

I would also say that if Eastern played in The FAC there’s no way in Hades they are a 1 loss team. I’m not that excited about your loss to Eastern at home. I don’t think it’s a positive.

I could also look at Waverlys schedule and say: you lost every big game you played in since the first game until last night and because you beat Jackson at home last night you all of a sudden want the 2?

You can pick all resumes apart or build any of them up. I’m suspect when your main point is losses as I’ve saud before.

I deleted a bunch of stuff. It’s no fun being negative.

It can go anyway and you can justify anything at this point.

[HamPorter]

Honestly can't see how Waverly isn't seeded higher than Jackson based on objectively looking at the above.

It gets weird at that point, because is Waverly over WCH, who they lost to head to head? And how could WCH be over Jackson, who they lost to twice?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[smurray]

I think Greenfield is the 5. I’m not sure on the other 3, I’d probably go Jackson, Washington, Waverly, but would honestly be fine with any combination. I think the 3 is probably the most desireable spot, even though Gallia seems like a bit of an unknown, especially since they are to the Far East of the rest of the contenders in this sectional

I would love to see Waverly at the 3 and think they are just as deserving as anybody, it’s just a matter of how the league teams vote (try to avoid each other or try to avoid Waverly). Waverly the only SOC team in this Sectional fighting for seeding alone.

[smurray]

Guys I’m not sure.

I can make a point for all 4.

I would also say that if Eastern played in The FAC there’s no way in Hades they are a 1 loss team. I’m not that excited about your loss to Eastern at home. I don’t think it’s a positive.

I could also look at Waverlys schedule and say: you lost every big game you played in since the first game until last night and because you beat Jackson at home last night you all of a sudden want the 2?

You can pick all resumes apart or build any of them up. I’m suspect when your main point is losses as I’ve saud before.

I deleted a bunch of stuff. It’s no fun being negative.

It can go anyway and you can justify anything at this point.

I never saw anyone say Waverly deserved the 2. I think one can argue the 3 - THIS THING IS CRAZY!!!!!!!
A CRAZY CRAZY SECTIONAL THIS YEAR!

[LucasDavenport]

Springfield Shawnee is D2

Thank you. You are correct here.

I was assuming from size of school and that’s not smart

[LucasDavenport]

Smurray: I think you can argue anything from 2-5. I truly do. That was my negative Waverly rant.

I have one for the other 3 too.

Trust me on this. Waverly is pushing for the 2. And everything we say on here is a sideshow. But hey at least we are entertaining them. You know at the end of the day we are all going to laugh about it cause on Sunday it will be announced and be total opposite of what we expect.

[joemama]

As the great orator Mike Tyson once said- "everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth"- coaches will "band" together and vote for what's best for their team- behind their computers (not a fan). These guys should be face to face and vote with integrity, but the waters are always muddy and when you only have to win 1 game to be a sectional champ and play in the Convo hearts grow bigger than brains. Comparing these teams across conferences and divisions is nuts- it's too difficult- none of you are smart enough or see enough of these teams to do that- (self included) It's hard to fault teams who play in leagues with smaller division teams also (they have no control). H 2 H is almost the only way- Divisional opponents rarely matters either- taking out losses, but counting others- boo. Let the chips fall where they may and go earn it. Let the backroom negotiations begin. Which again is a reason that this archaic district board needs to get rid of this system (only district in the state that does it this way) and move to a super sectional and give coaches more control. Also top seeds should be rewarded and get home games (travel is not the issue- always hear that argument- they do it in literally every other sport) in first couple rounds- at least until Sectional title then move to your sites.

[Ukfanatic]

I think Waverly's case for the two or three becomes beat Jackson head to head and only lost by 5 at Courthouse on a night where they saw one of their teammates suffer one of the worst injuries anyone has ever seen live. There are reasons Jackson and Court House could be placed above them. It is crazy to try to figure out. But I agree with Lucas that it boils down to who your friends are. So who do you think has the most friends. Does Courthouse not get the benefit of the doubt because of a new young coach. Will the league stick together and vote in a block or will they hold grudges against each other. Will Robertson being in the Courthouse Hall of Fame get him some love. I cannot wait to see how this plays out. I agree this would be a good year to have to vote face to face.

[LucasDavenport]

This would be a great year to vote face to face.

An even better year to allow coaches to place themselves on the board. The 5 could pick which of the 4 they wanted to play.

[96stroker]

Does it really matter just win baby and move on!!!!

[LucasDavenport]

Since basketball is a game of matchups .... yeah it matters. And I also believe you have 2 towns starved to go to the Convo in Jackson and Washington and that simply makes it a little more stressful.

Ukfanatic smurray — I hope you know I’m not judging as Waverly should do whatever they can do. Just like Jackson and Washington and Greenfield and ...

This is why you are very careful to not make enemies....

Going to be an interesting week.

To be honest my simple prayer is that my sons head doesn’t explode. It’s been an interesting year.