Is the Pitch Count Rule Hurting the Game?

[Firebreather]

I feel that the pitch count rule is killing the high school game of baseball. I understand the reasoning behind it (pitcher arm safety), but putting inexperienced kids on the mound 60 ft from a missile fired back at them isn't safe either. Some of the games I have seen this year are boring after a couple of innings with coaches saving pitchers and such. I'm not looking for arguments, just some opinions.

[Raider6309]

The good teams used a pitch count long before this rule

[eagles73Taylor]

Thats the problem raider, not so good coaches have ruined it for everyone! It will definitely shine a light on some very thin pitching staffs!

[danicalifornia]

Like has been said, good coaches have done it for a long time.

I don’t mind it, but I also haven’t seen anything like what firebreather mentioned in a game. That could be annoying for sure.

I think it is a good idea, maybe could be changed up slightly, but the idea of safety is better. What I'd really like to see are better throwing fundamentals though. That would limit a lot of arm/shoulder issues before a pitch count is even necessary.

[Gold Blood]

I feel that the pitch count rule is killing the high school game of baseball. I understand the reasoning behind it (pitcher arm safety), but putting inexperienced kids on the mound 60 ft from a missile fired back at them isn't safe either. Some of the games I have seen this year are boring after a couple of innings with coaches saving pitchers and such. I'm not looking for arguments, just some opinions.

You are an incompetent idiot who has no clue about the game of baseball.

[Kurgan74]

I do not believe the pitch count is hurting the game. It has been a a reaction to alarming rise in Tommy John SSurgeries among teens.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox13n ... gery-is-up

Unfortunately, in this area especially, participation numbers are down. Several schools are having a hard time filling both a JV and Varsity squad. Those that do are forced to balance their pitching needs and protecting the arms of the pitchers.

I believe the kids need to work on changing speeds more and focus less on trying to throw in the 90s and throwing a 12 to 6 curve ball. However, I see why they do focus on that as the lure of big guaranteed money at MLB has kids trying to wow the scouts.

[Ironman92]

Quit playing 80 games when you are 10 and your arm will be fine in high school...but that will never happen as the travel ball gets kicking at age 7. Bleh, whatever...just teach every kid how to pitch I guess. Double-headers are becoming something of the past.

You truly better have 7 kids that can pitch or you will definitely have pitching struggles with 7 games in 7 days and trying to get through the season. Postseason you can get by with 4 and mike a real nice run.

[ItsMyOpinion]

I think the “Pitch Count” is a good thing. It’s an attempt at protecting young arms. There are too many coaches just worried about winning and not the player.

And I agree with Ironman. Travel ball is one of the problems. Start playing tournament in April. Then play summer ball (June-Aug) and then we have to play Fall League on the weekends. (Sept-Oct) That is 7 months!

[Firebreather]

I do have a clue Gold Blood. I won't go into my background but I do. All I'm saying is the game is already on a downturn. I know the reasoning but I do not feel like amount of pitches is a good gauge. Tommy John surgery or the injury that causes the surgery was not real prevalent until you started seeing the end of the "drop and drive" (Nolan Ryan Tom Seaver) and the teaching of the "tall and fall". I agree with Ironman that the 80 summer games affect kids arms and also ends up burning them out. Winter "showcases" cause a lot of arm troubles for kids that are not ready to throw full speed. Poor pitching leads to 4 hour games with scores of 22-12. Kids will not play because the game takes too long.

[danicalifornia]

Where in the world are the 22-12/4 hour games happening?

There are blowouts every season, even before the pitch count rule came into play.

In reality, if the pitch count is hurting you, teach your pitchers better mechanics. We have an entire month of preseason and most of that is inside where you can focus on mechanics before ever throwing a pitch off of a mound.

[Abe Froman]

As stated above I think most programs were using some form of pitch control prior to the implementation of the rule by OHSAA, whether it was a true count or innings worked or just monitoring the starts and days between rest. Obviously there was a need for a point of emphasis in OHSAA's mind in order to implement it, and I don't think it has impacted or hurt the game.

Not to change the subject but one thing in my mind that has hurt the game (I have witnessed 3-4 teams/coaches this year doing this) is the ridiculous use of wrist band and calling playings shouting a series of numbers/colors, etc. to call in pitches to the catchers for fastball/curve/slider/change-up or whatever. Totally disrupts the flow of the game, takes forever since the pitcher is ready to go, batter in the box and the catcher waits crouched for a "999 Red", then looks to his wrist finds the number/color, and of course by that time the pitcher has been set for 30 seconds, the batter backs out and it is rinse and repeat do it all over again.

Coaches this isn't about YOU, quit making everyone wait on you. It is about the student-athlete, you should be coaching the catcher/pitcher on where is the batters stance, is his swing a pull swing, what is the count, go over his spray chart from last at bat or the last time you played that team. TEACH the game - quit inserting yourself into the game - you are jacking it up with the incessant dumbing down of players by doing this instead of COACHING them on how to call a game.

Pitchers (or at least I did) want to work in rhythm, if I was grooving I was toeing the rubber immediately after last strike and ready to work quick, expected to see a sign from my beloved catcher (who to this day even though we are miles apart are the best of friends) and was rocking back and delivering the next one. If for example my catcher (or me for that matter) didn't know what to throw the 3-hole with a runner on second and a base open and no outs in a close game when the kid pulled 4 balls hard foul on the last 2 at bats then shame on us.

I get not every pitcher/catcher battery are seniors that know each other, so if the call is going to come from the dugout do it quick with an indicator and flash a couple signs - but GO. And in between innings teach that sophomore catcher why you called what you did. Go over what the next at bat did last time. Coach, teach. We (or at least me) don't want to listen 130 times a game to 708, 333, 401 and wait 30+ seconds between pitches, timeouts from the batter, etc. And I bet your team doesn't want to either - I guarantee a pitcher that is cruising wants to go, not wait on you.

Ok, I feel better now lol....keep the pitch count...ban the wrist band.

[danicalifornia]

As stated above I think most programs were using some form of pitch control prior to the implementation of the rule by OHSAA, whether it was a true count or innings worked or just monitoring the starts and days between rest. Obviously there was a need for a point of emphasis in OHSAA's mind in order to implement it, and I don't think it has impacted or hurt the game.

Not to change the subject but one thing in my mind that has hurt the game (I have witnessed 3-4 teams/coaches this year doing this) is the ridiculous use of wrist band and calling playings shouting a series of numbers/colors, etc. to call in pitches to the catchers for fastball/curve/slider/change-up or whatever. Totally disrupts the flow of the game, takes forever since the pitcher is ready to go, batter in the box and the catcher waits crouched for a "999 Red", then looks to his wrist finds the number/color, and of course by that time the pitcher has been set for 30 seconds, the batter backs out and it is rinse and repeat do it all over again.

Coaches this isn't about YOU, quit making everyone wait on you. It is about the student-athlete, you should be coaching the catcher/pitcher on where is the batters stance, is his swing a pull swing, what is the count, go over his spray chart from last at bat or the last time you played that team. TEACH the game - quit inserting yourself into the game - you are jacking it up with the incessant dumbing down of players by doing this instead of COACHING them on how to call a game.

Pitchers (or at least I did) want to work in rhythm, if I was grooving I was toeing the rubber immediately after last strike and ready to work quick, expected to see a sign from my beloved catcher (who to this day even though we are miles apart are the best of friends) and was rocking back and delivering the next one. If for example my catcher (or me for that matter) didn't know what to throw the 3-hole with a runner on second and a base open and no outs in a close game when the kid pulled 4 balls hard foul on the last 2 at bats then shame on us.

I get not every pitcher/catcher battery are seniors that know each other, so if the call is going to come from the dugout do it quick with an indicator and flash a couple signs - but GO. And in between innings teach that sophomore catcher why you called what you did. Go over what the next at bat did last time. Coach, teach. We (or at least me) don't want to listen 130 times a game to 708, 333, 401 and wait 30+ seconds between pitches, timeouts from the batter, etc. And I bet your team doesn't want to either - I guarantee a pitcher that is cruising wants to go, not wait on you.

Ok, I feel better now lol....keep the pitch count...ban the wrist band.

[Ironman92]

As stated above I think most programs were using some form of pitch control prior to the implementation of the rule by OHSAA, whether it was a true count or innings worked or just monitoring the starts and days between rest. Obviously there was a need for a point of emphasis in OHSAA's mind in order to implement it, and I don't think it has impacted or hurt the game.

Not to change the subject but one thing in my mind that has hurt the game (I have witnessed 3-4 teams/coaches this year doing this) is the ridiculous use of wrist band and calling playings shouting a series of numbers/colors, etc. to call in pitches to the catchers for fastball/curve/slider/change-up or whatever. Totally disrupts the flow of the game, takes forever since the pitcher is ready to go, batter in the box and the catcher waits crouched for a "999 Red", then looks to his wrist finds the number/color, and of course by that time the pitcher has been set for 30 seconds, the batter backs out and it is rinse and repeat do it all over again.

Coaches this isn't about YOU, quit making everyone wait on you. It is about the student-athlete, you should be coaching the catcher/pitcher on where is the batters stance, is his swing a pull swing, what is the count, go over his spray chart from last at bat or the last time you played that team. TEACH the game - quit inserting yourself into the game - you are jacking it up with the incessant dumbing down of players by doing this instead of COACHING them on how to call a game.

Pitchers (or at least I did) want to work in rhythm, if I was grooving I was toeing the rubber immediately after last strike and ready to work quick, expected to see a sign from my beloved catcher (who to this day even though we are miles apart are the best of friends) and was rocking back and delivering the next one. If for example my catcher (or me for that matter) didn't know what to throw the 3-hole with a runner on second and a base open and no outs in a close game when the kid pulled 4 balls hard foul on the last 2 at bats then shame on us.

I get not every pitcher/catcher battery are seniors that know each other, so if the call is going to come from the dugout do it quick with an indicator and flash a couple signs - but GO. And in between innings teach that sophomore catcher why you called what you did. Go over what the next at bat did last time. Coach, teach. We (or at least me) don't want to listen 130 times a game to 708, 333, 401 and wait 30+ seconds between pitches, timeouts from the batter, etc. And I bet your team doesn't want to either - I guarantee a pitcher that is cruising wants to go, not wait on you.

Ok, I feel better now lol....keep the pitch count...ban the wrist band.

100x this

[Whynot]

As stated above I think most programs were using some form of pitch control prior to the implementation of the rule by OHSAA, whether it was a true count or innings worked or just monitoring the starts and days between rest. Obviously there was a need for a point of emphasis in OHSAA's mind in order to implement it, and I don't think it has impacted or hurt the game.

Not to change the subject but one thing in my mind that has hurt the game (I have witnessed 3-4 teams/coaches this year doing this) is the ridiculous use of wrist band and calling playings shouting a series of numbers/colors, etc. to call in pitches to the catchers for fastball/curve/slider/change-up or whatever. Totally disrupts the flow of the game, takes forever since the pitcher is ready to go, batter in the box and the catcher waits crouched for a "999 Red", then looks to his wrist finds the number/color, and of course by that time the pitcher has been set for 30 seconds, the batter backs out and it is rinse and repeat do it all over again.

Coaches this isn't about YOU, quit making everyone wait on you. It is about the student-athlete, you should be coaching the catcher/pitcher on where is the batters stance, is his swing a pull swing, what is the count, go over his spray chart from last at bat or the last time you played that team. TEACH the game - quit inserting yourself into the game - you are jacking it up with the incessant dumbing down of players by doing this instead of COACHING them on how to call a game.

Pitchers (or at least I did) want to work in rhythm, if I was grooving I was toeing the rubber immediately after last strike and ready to work quick, expected to see a sign from my beloved catcher (who to this day even though we are miles apart are the best of friends) and was rocking back and delivering the next one. If for example my catcher (or me for that matter) didn't know what to throw the 3-hole with a runner on second and a base open and no outs in a close game when the kid pulled 4 balls hard foul on the last 2 at bats then shame on us.

I get not every pitcher/catcher battery are seniors that know each other, so if the call is going to come from the dugout do it quick with an indicator and flash a couple signs - but GO. And in between innings teach that sophomore catcher why you called what you did. Go over what the next at bat did last time. Coach, teach. We (or at least me) don't want to listen 130 times a game to 708, 333, 401 and wait 30+ seconds between pitches, timeouts from the batter, etc. And I bet your team doesn't want to either - I guarantee a pitcher that is cruising wants to go, not wait on you.

Ok, I feel better now lol....keep the pitch count...ban the wrist band.

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Mother Freakin Like!!!

[Whynot]

Also FYI, catchers wristbands can be made with no number higher than “5”. This allows any coach to quickly send signals in with fingers, ex. “452”. Easily done with a hand signal.
Why the heck are you screaming “837” 100+ times per game? Get over yourself. It’s not about you. Teach the game. I know I’m repeating Abe, but dang it’s ridiculous.

[E High]

Let the kids pitch and play. Let the coach sit in the doughout and have a chew and leave the players alone. This isn’t MLB. I get a pitch count but let them pitch. Also, if they weren’t throwing All those pitches for Daddy at 10-12 years old, maybe some of these rules wouldn’t be in place

[BobcatQB]

1. The introduction of pitch count should have absolutely no bearing on the results of games. If it does, you have not done your job as a coach. There is absolutely no reason to have less than 8 kids on a high school team that have extensive pitching experience. So not being able to protect themselves shouldn't be a concern.

2. Agree that too much baseball on young arms is not ideal. I do believe that this is the major cause of so many arm injuries. However, let's not paint with a broad brush and bash "travel ball" and coaches. Many do the right things. Of course there are always exceptions.

3. Totally agree with the wristbands. I have always taught situational baseball. Why are we coaching? To teach the game. I have always tried to groom pitchers and catchers so that they can learn to call their own games once they have made it to HS. To me, this is the best part of coaching.

[Firebreather]

8 quality pitchers? Most high school teams have 3-4 varsity kids that can legit pitch. 3-4 more on the JV squad. What I am saying is that if a team gets behind early, we are seeing coaches pull varsity pitching to save for a later game and using inexperienced Jv kids to finish. It is happening! Ive seen a lot of baseball this year. I also hate the wristband system. Complete time killer! We are not dealing with robots. Let the kids play and teach them how to play in Jv and practice.

[Orange and Brown]

1. The introduction of pitch count should have absolutely no bearing on the results of games. If it does, you have not done your job as a coach. There is absolutely no reason to have less than 8 kids on a high school team that have extensive pitching experience. So not being able to protect themselves shouldn't be a concern.

2. Agree that too much baseball on young arms is not ideal. I do believe that this is the major cause of so many arm injuries. However, let's not paint with a broad brush and bash "travel ball" and coaches. Many do the right things. Of course there are always exceptions.

3. Totally agree with the wristbands. I have always taught situational baseball. Why are we coaching? To teach the game. I have always tried to groom pitchers and catchers so that they can learn to call their own games once they have made it to HS. To me, this is the best part of coaching.

8???
You gotta be kidding me!

[BobcatQB]

1. The introduction of pitch count should have absolutely no bearing on the results of games. If it does, you have not done your job as a coach. There is absolutely no reason to have less than 8 kids on a high school team that have extensive pitching experience. So not being able to protect themselves shouldn't be a concern.

2. Agree that too much baseball on young arms is not ideal. I do believe that this is the major cause of so many arm injuries. However, let's not paint with a broad brush and bash "travel ball" and coaches. Many do the right things. Of course there are always exceptions.

3. Totally agree with the wristbands. I have always taught situational baseball. Why are we coaching? To teach the game. I have always tried to groom pitchers and catchers so that they can learn to call their own games once they have made it to HS. To me, this is the best part of coaching.

8???
You gotta be kidding me!

I certainly didn't say 8 great pitchers..I said 8 with extensive pitching experience. These kids have played baseball most of their lives and most of them have been pitchers at lower levels. There is no reason they shouldn't continue to get reps and build arm strength so they can contribute in HS.