Rules and Moral Question

[Cheerdad2020]

Painting the scene. Championship on the line with 50 seconds left. Team A down by 2 points. 4th down and lining up for the game winning field goal. The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered).

So why wouldn't the team that blocked and that recovered the kick just get the ball at the spot of where the whistle was blown dead?

Instead I'm hearing the rules is the team with the ball gets the option to kick again or just let the play be. That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

[danicalifornia]

You kick again. It sucks, but that’s because the rules are bad in that case

[mlittle]

Painting the scene. Championship on the line with 50 seconds left. Team A down by 2 points. 4th down and lining up for the game winning field goal. The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered).

So why wouldn't the team that blocked and that recovered the kick just get the ball at the spot of where the whistle was blown dead?

Instead I'm hearing the rules is the team with the ball gets the option to kick again or just let the play be. That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

If the rule allows it you do what you have to do to win the game. You don’t have to lose to teach moral lessons

[Cheerdad2020]

shame on the official

[fbnut]

Just bad luck
You have to go for win

[NW97]

Game outcomes have come down to ref calls countless times at every level. Hate to see it though, would much rather see games end on plays that don't involve officials.

[mlittle]

Game outcomes have come down to ref calls countless times at every level. Hate to see it though, would much rather see games end on plays that don't involve officials.

High school officiating is atrocious. Probably not gonna change anytime soon. Gotta take the good with the bad

[teach1coach2]

2017 state championship game.
Late second quarter.
Team with ball is out of time outs.
Completes a pass that gets them into the red zone.
Coach runs out onto the field a few yards and the sideline judge throws a flag and it stops the clock at 6 seconds.
As the official signals sideline warning, the FG team runs out and gets ready.
Just after whistle to start play, the defense calls time out right before the snap due to personnel confusion.
Coach expresses dismay the refs didn't ignore the violation that was clearly meant to misuse the rules and get an extra time out.
FG attempted is missed, but still an immoral act or clever misuse of rules depending on your personal moral code.

[vladimir]

It's a bad rule, but it is what it is. You go for the win. As said above, shame on the official.

[formerfcfan]

The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered).

So why wouldn't the team that blocked and that recovered the kick just get the ball at the spot of where the whistle was blown dead?

Instead I'm hearing the rules is the team with the ball gets the option to kick again or just let the play be. That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

So, this also happened tonight in the Fisher vs Miller game (although kind of different circumstances.)

0-0 before half, 2nd down... six seconds in the half. FC kicks field goal, Miller blocks it. FC recovers and the ball-carrier never touches the ground, but it's incorrectly blown dead. PAT's get automatically blown dead upon block, field goals do not. Miller thinks the half is over. The refs instruct Miller to go back to the sideline and tells them since it was an inadvertent whistle there's going to be an untimed down for FC. FC re-kicks and gets the FG. Goes up 3-0 into half.

[greygoose]

Painting the scene. Championship on the line with 50 seconds left. Team A down by 2 points. 4th down and lining up for the game winning field goal. The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered).

So why wouldn't the team that blocked and that recovered the kick just get the ball at the spot of where the whistle was blown dead?

Instead I'm hearing the rules is the team with the ball gets the option to kick again or just let the play be. That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

Because that's the rule if it's an inadvertent whistle. I've watched a couple games where the refs and players are so faked out by a handoff that they blow the play dead because the guy who they thought had the ball was tackled. Meanwhile the guy that has the ball is standing in the end zone without a sole around him. He doesn't get a TD even though there wasn't anyone within 25 yards of him, the play was blown dead and the coach was given the option take the ball at the spot where they marked it dead or redo the play again. That's just how it is, it's not a moral question at all, it's the officials making a mistake but abiding by the rules given to them on how to continue on after that mistake is made.

[greygoose]

The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered).

So why wouldn't the team that blocked and that recovered the kick just get the ball at the spot of where the whistle was blown dead?

Instead I'm hearing the rules is the team with the ball gets the option to kick again or just let the play be. That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

So, this also happened tonight in the Fisher vs Miller game (although kind of different circumstances.)

0-0 before half, 2nd down... six seconds in the half. FC kicks field goal, Miller blocks it. FC recovers and the ball-carrier never touches the ground, but it's incorrectly blown dead. PAT's get automatically blown dead upon block, field goals do not. Miller thinks the half is over. The refs instruct Miller to go back to the sideline and tells them since it was an inadvertent whistle there's going to be an untimed down for FC. FC re-kicks and gets the FG. Goes up 3-0 into half.

For this reason and the one that cost SV the game this is why officials prior to a kick should verify with each other that they know, "hey this is a FG attempt and is live until that ball is kicked thru or if it's blocked and recovered."

[thebarlowbandit]

If only officials could be as perfect as the fans, always correct.

If only officials could execute correctly 100% of the time like the players do, never making a mistake.

If only officials could officiate 100% like the coaches who are 100% perfect on every play call they make.

The game would be perfect then.

[thebarlowbandit]

Game outcomes have come down to ref calls countless times at every level. Hate to see it though, would much rather see games end on plays that don't involve officials.

High school officiating is atrocious. Probably not gonna change anytime soon. Gotta take the good with the bad

I bet you would be even worse if you gave it a try.

[Frank Reagan]

As a former coach and referee, both make mistakes. It is unfortunate but both make mistakes that cost games. None are perfect. The rule was administered correctly, even though it stinks. I have made a similar mistake that was made here as have most all officials, if they have the balls to admit it. Some have been more crucial that others, but a mistake none the less. There’s an old coaching axiom, don’t leave the game close enough for the officials to have a say-so.

As for moral obligations, the coach has a moral obligation to his own players first and foremost and must try to win for your team, school and players. Secondly, what would your school administration think of you if you gave up the opportunity to win a conference championship for your school by claiming morals. Probably a firing offense.

[mlittle]

Game outcomes have come down to ref calls countless times at every level. Hate to see it though, would much rather see games end on plays that don't involve officials.

High school officiating is atrocious. Probably not gonna change anytime soon. Gotta take the good with the bad

I bet you would be even worse if you gave it a try.

I have officiated. Most would say I was great at it, really great actually, maybe the best they’ve seen in a really long time probably set some kind of record for how great I was.

[teach1coach2]

I didn't know Trump was posting on this site.

[Zunardo]

Team ... lining up for the game winning field goal. The kick is blocked and recovered by the other team but then a whistle comes in inadvertently (after the kick is blocked and recovered). ..... That's when the moral question comes in. You know you missed the kick and it was an inadvertent whistle. Do you kick the ball or give it to the other team like it would of been if the whistle wasn't blown.

A/k/a the non-correctable error? Kinda like in basketball when you put the ball in what you think is your basket, but the refs discover afterward they lined the teams up wrong, and the other team gets the points as a result. Should the other team speak up and say "Sir, that is incorrect - those points should go to our opponent"? It would be nice, but I don't know many teams that turn down a favorable result when the officials follow their procedures to move forward after an obvious (and honest) mistake. So why not ensure that it can be corrected?

There was a Yappi discussion on a similar-type issue a few years back, and a similar question was raised as to what can be done immediately to ensure the team that the error hurt can somehow be "restored". One of the member posted what I thought was a nice job in explaining the pitfalls of this, and I think it applies here as well:

"Nowhere in that definition was it stated it was a coach's or player's fault. It was actually said that the refs made the mistake. The thing is that they shouldn't, and by rules, can't rewind a game. Thus, a mistake is made, but you must move forward after it. If you start rewinding the game for every mistake made by a ref, coach or player, perceived or otherwise, you open a huge can of worms for everyone wanting everything rewound. Think about just how ugly that could get, how long games would become."

[football professor]

i have watched the replay of this play several time and have not been able to hear a whistle before the defense recovers the ball

[BigBlueNation]

i have watched the replay of this play several time and have not been able to hear a whistle before the defense recovers the ball
[/quote


As soon as the kick is blocked there is a whistle. Then there is a second whistle right before the player recovers the ball. Then there is a third whistle right after the ball is recovered. You can also hear the people in the press box say that's a live ball.