Bishop Hartley....THE REAL DEAL

[greygoose]

Well of course, best athletes money can buy if they're not fielding that type of team they're not recruiting right. That's just simple facts, much like the Harvest Prep coach saying if he needs a position he just goes into the stats in the Columbus area and looks at the top players and offers them a scholarship to HP.

At what point is enough enough? The OHSAA allows it. I think they should be moved into their own division.

Or maybe teach the seo kids how to NOT be their punching bags for once OR admit ya kids aint got the same talent.

Which is it?

Speedkillz
JohnBlaze23
Dickhead 2021 whatever you want to call yourself today. The saddest part about any post you put is simply a grown man that has to change his name every other day so he can jump on a forum to discuss issues he knows nothing about. You said like an old bitter coach that got fired because he couldn't hack it. Look man those that can't do, teach, and those that can't teach get on a forum every day with a new name and blab at the mouth with your utter non-sense. It's ok coach you couldn't hack it but keep talking about the kids you couldn't coach up. Maybe tomorrow you can signup with another name, Ican'tcoach99. Good Luck man it's pretty darn sad.

[mt1fan]

If Hartley is the real deal then how come they had trouble beating a D-V Harvest Prep I mean is Prep that good? I haven't seen either of them play

Looking at their schedule id say its pretty decent, only losing to Hartley and Licking Heights. Notable wins include, Eastmoor, Bishop Ready and Columbus Academy. They were scheduled to play Grandview and didn't, probably covid related. Won big in the first round of the playoffs vs Northwest and they have a really tough Amanda Clearcreek this week.

[MrFirstTake]

If Hartley is the real deal then how come they had trouble beating a D-V Harvest Prep I mean is Prep that good? I haven't seen either of them play

Looking at their schedule id say its pretty decent, only losing to Hartley and Licking Heights. Notable wins include, Eastmoor, Bishop Ready and Columbus Academy. They were scheduled to play Grandview and didn't, probably covid related. Won big in the first round of the playoffs vs Northwest and they have a really tough Amanda Clearcreek this week.

Harvest Prep that played against Hartley was a different team than now they’ve had a few key injuries during towards the middle of the year that made them play some teams closer and even lose a game to licking heights. Hartley is pretty good I’ve only seen two games but they were both against good competition (Harvest prep) (Benedictine) and I watched the Miami trace game for about15 minutes lol

[veer]

At what point is enough enough? The OHSAA allows it. I think they should be moved into their own division.

Clinton Massie got past Hartley more than once. It is possible for a public school without recruiting to beat these teams...but it takes 15-20+ kids in each class that grind day in and day out every year from freshman year to senior year. MT had a fantastic season, but they are not on the level of a regional final team in region 11 with or without catholic schools being in the same bracket. No need to try to point the finger because of a playoff loss...simply get better.

No one pointing the finger here. Dont worry, MT reloads next season.

That they should reload. Trace will have a nice team next year for sure

[Abe Froman]

Hopefully the poster known as Sapientia Et Veritas will see this thread and hop on with some insight into Hartley and Region 11 as he sees it. A Hartley guy that is objective and knowledgeable about that program year in and year out. Be interesting to see how he sees the Region going and his thoughts on Granville.

He usually appears about this time of year when Hartley starts to play potentially some SE Ohio teams. Solid poster.

[formerfcfan]

A lot of folks get the general idea about BH wrong.

Hartley's ascent to football prowess 2010-present has to do with territorial dominance: 1) large success in tapping in to the Catholic schools within the general "assignment" to BH, to keep them from getting peeled away by the publics and other Catholic schools [sometimes it doesn't happen: see Detroit Lions RB Godwin Igwebuike, who went to Pick North] 1a) being the most-attractive and best atmosphere for talent on their side town outside of the Catholic feeders.

The two angles work hand-in-hand. The Catholic kids lay the foundation, with a high floor -- the enrollees outside of the Catholic schools raise the ceiling for them. Success, as in state titles and big playoff runs, is made possible by both parties. That success, in turn, gives credibility and formation for the program to which parents are willing to pay the tuition for their kids to be apart of. Helps that a prominent TV station in Columbus is willing to be a PR machine for the school, despite the fact there's conflicts of interests in the coverage (one anchor has kids who go there and is the spouse of a varsity coach; TV sports anchor graduated from BH.)

It's fundamental, and necessary, to the health of the school. School's located in a part of town that isn't convenient (nor that attractive) to a significant portion of the paying base. Losing or mediocre football program isn't going to move the meter. Same applies to being "no EdChoice", because it raises the cost of the already-high tuition everyone else is paying out of pocket.

~~What others accuse Hartley of doing, such as recruiting on the basis of athletics and donors paying for athletes to attend are both illegal and not something BH does.

In general everything BH does is within the rules. I take less issue with the fact Hartley does it, personally. I attribute it to the Diocese of Columbus: they greenlit it. They're behind it. There will always be rules and protections made for the high schools inside 270 that don't exist for the ones outside of it.

[greygoose]

~~What others accuse Hartley of doing, such as recruiting on the basis of athletics and donors paying for athletes to attend are both illegal and not something BH does.

The way they're aloud to recruit I'm sorry but to sit here and think they don't do any of it on the basis of athletics would be very naïve. As long as the school isn't solely pushing their school with the basis of sports they can and do. Coach, "Hey you've seen how good our program is and we believe you take it to the next level especially once you see our arts department and the educational value behind it". Supposed to stay within certain areas but that's not a must.

[TheLurker]

Or maybe teach the seo kids how to NOT be their punching bags for once OR admit ya kids aint got the same talent.

Which is it?

Your odd fascination / disdain for all things “seo” gives you away every time…then your use of “ya” just confirms it lol

.
It doesn't change the message being true. Ya some haters. All that belly achin about private schools or schools "recruiting" in some form another, makes you look weak. Afraid of competition. Afraid of reality and just mad at the world. Lol. I've never seen a more stubborn & narrow bunch in my life. Soon as somebody says something positive about Hartley or a similar program or even Ironton for fans of other seo programs, you girls get on it and hate on the program. Act as if they are corrupt or doing something heinous . And it's all just jealousy. Envious of the advantages in another community because your own community cannot provide similarly. Oh well. They don't deserve any less recognition and they don't duck good teams. And because their talent pool is deeper and better quality on average the kids have to work harder to get a chance to shine. "And these are the breeeeaaaaksss!"
Don't hate on somebody in a room your kids can't shine in. Should be motivated to do it better your way w your community & culture & talent instead of acting like a better program is undeserving because it's better. That'd be like the mac conf talking down on the SEC cause they do everything better. Lol.

I also love watchin a buncha older seo dudes act like recruting hasnt been goin on since grade school recess two hand touch on the blacktop football games? 7 on 7 b4 7 on 7 was a thing. Stop pretending to be shocked & outraged at recruiting and viruses & transfers & technology & phone apps & private schools.

Not just that but 97+% of Hartley and Harvest Prep's rosters have been there since at least the 9th grade.

[greygoose]

Your odd fascination / disdain for all things “seo” gives you away every time…then your use of “ya” just confirms it lol

.
It doesn't change the message being true. Ya some haters. All that belly achin about private schools or schools "recruiting" in some form another, makes you look weak. Afraid of competition. Afraid of reality and just mad at the world. Lol. I've never seen a more stubborn & narrow bunch in my life. Soon as somebody says something positive about Hartley or a similar program or even Ironton for fans of other seo programs, you girls get on it and hate on the program. Act as if they are corrupt or doing something heinous . And it's all just jealousy. Envious of the advantages in another community because your own community cannot provide similarly. Oh well. They don't deserve any less recognition and they don't duck good teams. And because their talent pool is deeper and better quality on average the kids have to work harder to get a chance to shine. "And these are the breeeeaaaaksss!"
Don't hate on somebody in a room your kids can't shine in. Should be motivated to do it better your way w your community & culture & talent instead of acting like a better program is undeserving because it's better. That'd be like the mac conf talking down on the SEC cause they do everything better. Lol.

I also love watchin a buncha older seo dudes act like recruting hasnt been goin on since grade school recess two hand touch on the blacktop football games? 7 on 7 b4 7 on 7 was a thing. Stop pretending to be shocked & outraged at recruiting and viruses & transfers & technology & phone apps & private schools.

Not just that but 97+% of Hartley and Harvest Prep's rosters have been there since at least the 9th grade.

Really?? That's a very high number and some kind of information you've got there, so given all of that how is it a team like HP jumped from DVII to DV with a roster of 97% kids having been there since AT least 9th grade?? Also the Harvest Prep coach come out and said exactly how he goes about finding players he needs. It's not a big deal they're able to do that so it is what it is, but let's not make them to be like they're on the up and up compared to public schools by saying 97% of their roster was on there at least since 9th CB numbers don't lie.

[TheLurker]

.
It doesn't change the message being true. Ya some haters. All that belly achin about private schools or schools "recruiting" in some form another, makes you look weak. Afraid of competition. Afraid of reality and just mad at the world. Lol. I've never seen a more stubborn & narrow bunch in my life. Soon as somebody says something positive about Hartley or a similar program or even Ironton for fans of other seo programs, you girls get on it and hate on the program. Act as if they are corrupt or doing something heinous . And it's all just jealousy. Envious of the advantages in another community because your own community cannot provide similarly. Oh well. They don't deserve any less recognition and they don't duck good teams. And because their talent pool is deeper and better quality on average the kids have to work harder to get a chance to shine. "And these are the breeeeaaaaksss!"
Don't hate on somebody in a room your kids can't shine in. Should be motivated to do it better your way w your community & culture & talent instead of acting like a better program is undeserving because it's better. That'd be like the mac conf talking down on the SEC cause they do everything better. Lol.

I also love watchin a buncha older seo dudes act like recruting hasnt been goin on since grade school recess two hand touch on the blacktop football games? 7 on 7 b4 7 on 7 was a thing. Stop pretending to be shocked & outraged at recruiting and viruses & transfers & technology & phone apps & private schools.

Not just that but 97+% of Hartley and Harvest Prep's rosters have been there since at least the 9th grade.

Really?? That's a very high number and some kind of information you've got there, so given all of that how is it a team like HP jumped from DVII to DV with a roster of 97% kids having been there since AT least 9th grade?? Also the Harvest Prep coach come out and said exactly how he goes about finding players he needs. It's not a big deal they're able to do that so it is what it is, but let's not make them to be like they're on the up and up compared to public schools by saying 97% of their roster was on there at least since 9th CB numbers don't lie.

You should read up on "Competitive balance". They were moved up because of that. That will answer your questions. It starts calculating in the 7th grade.

[eagles73Taylor]

Non public schools tiers formula.

Ask: “Has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of edu‐
cation since the start of 7th grade?”
If No: Enter this student as a Tier 2.
If Yes, Ask: “Did the student attend your designated feeder school since the start of
7th grade and, if he/she did not enter the high school at the beginning of 9th grade,
has he/she maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education?”
If Yes: Enter this student as a Tier 0. If No: Enter this student as a Tier 1.

218
BISHOP HARTLEY
COLUMBUS
69 competitive balance number.

Desales 72, Dayton Chaminade Juliene 91, Bishop Fenwick 95, Cleveland CC 92.

Highest public Dayton Carroll 33. Stayed with D III because talking about Hartley

[Kirtland80]

I would like to get Hartley on the schedule. It would be interesting to see how it goes

[MrFirstTake]

I would like to get Hartley on the schedule. It would be interesting to see how it goes

Kirtland would beat Hartley the last 3 years I’ve seen them play no question it would be close but I think they ultimately win

[Hawkcaulker9]

Non public schools tiers formula.

Ask: “Has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of edu‐
cation since the start of 7th grade?”
If No: Enter this student as a Tier 2.
If Yes, Ask: “Did the student attend your designated feeder school since the start of
7th grade and, if he/she did not enter the high school at the beginning of 9th grade,
has he/she maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education?”
If Yes: Enter this student as a Tier 0. If No: Enter this student as a Tier 1.

218
BISHOP HARTLEY
COLUMBUS
69 competitive balance number.

Desales 72, Dayton Chaminade Juliene 91, Bishop Fenwick 95, Cleveland CC 92.

Highest public Dayton Carroll 33. Stayed with D III because talking about Hartley

Just a little more insight on this, Hartley has six Catholic grade schools to draw from set forth by the diocese of Columbus; St. Pius(Reynoldsburg), Holy Spirit(Whitehall), St.Matthew’s (Gahanna), St. Catherine’s(Bexley/Eastmoor), St. Mary’s(German Village), All Saints(Berwick/S. Eastmoor areas). Of the six Hartley had to designate one of these as the feeder school, St. Pius was chosen if said student attended there from 7th grade they are a 0, Kids from other 5 schools that attended from 7th count as 1.
Kids that attended any school just in the 8th grade or from a public counts as 2. That is how Hartley jumped from IV to III, not that there are more kids in the hallways, but applying the numerical values of where and when they went to schools other that the one designated feeder.
Hartley does not draw from the entire city and outlying suburbs only a 1/4 of the city and suburbs east and southeast.
Not to be too picky but Dayton Carroll is a Catholic school as well, their number isn’t high because they are not competitive with Alter and Chaminade.

[formerfcfan]

Non public schools tiers formula.

Ask: “Has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of edu‐
cation since the start of 7th grade?”
If No: Enter this student as a Tier 2.
If Yes, Ask: “Did the student attend your designated feeder school since the start of
7th grade and, if he/she did not enter the high school at the beginning of 9th grade,
has he/she maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education?”
If Yes: Enter this student as a Tier 0. If No: Enter this student as a Tier 1.

218
BISHOP HARTLEY
COLUMBUS
69 competitive balance number.

Desales 72, Dayton Chaminade Juliene 91, Bishop Fenwick 95, Cleveland CC 92.

Highest public Dayton Carroll 33. Stayed with D III because talking about Hartley

What you wrote isn’t the formula that OHSAA has said applies to Hartley, as they fall under the “Diocese of Columbus exception.”

As noted earlier, an exception for tiering non-public school students who attend a school within the Diocese of Columbus is in place. The Diocese shall be required to submit to the OHSAA Office the attendance zones for their schools.
• If the student attended the same system of education continuously since the beginning of 7th grade and if the student and at least one parent currently resides within the assigned attendance zone, the student shall be Tier 0.
• If the student attended the same system of education continuously since the beginning of 7th grade but the student and at least one parent currently resides outside the assigned attendance zone, the student shall be Tier 1.
• If the student did not attend the same system of education continuously since the start of 7th grade, the student shall be Tier 2.

Carroll is a Catholic school, by the way.

[eagles73Taylor]

How did the Cbus diocese pull that off! lol

[greygoose]

Not just that but 97+% of Hartley and Harvest Prep's rosters have been there since at least the 9th grade.

Really?? That's a very high number and some kind of information you've got there, so given all of that how is it a team like HP jumped from DVII to DV with a roster of 97% kids having been there since AT least 9th grade?? Also the Harvest Prep coach come out and said exactly how he goes about finding players he needs. It's not a big deal they're able to do that so it is what it is, but let's not make them to be like they're on the up and up compared to public schools by saying 97% of their roster was on there at least since 9th CB numbers don't lie.

You should read up on "Competitive balance". They were moved up because of that. That will answer your questions. It starts calculating in the 7th grade.

You should talk to Harvest Prep coach, that will explain way more than anything. Again it's no biggie, but no one can sit here and say they don't recruit.

[formerfcfan]

How did the Cbus diocese pull that off! lol

The original CBP was really brutal on the DoC. For the “inside 270” schools most of their feeders were located in suburban districts; for schools like us, “outside 270” the 12.5-mile rule was crap soup. We were being forced to tier-1 kids who attended their parish grade schools in Perry County because the schools are outside the 12.5 mile range. It’s the same system of education for all intents and purposes, but not in the eyes of the OHSAA at the time.

More to the point: Diocese of Columbus is different from all the other Diocesan/Archdiocesan systems in Ohio when it comes to high school attendance. The original CBP, before the DoC exception, addressed the pitfalls of what happens in places like Akron, Cleveland and Toledo where you can attend a Catholic HS from wherever you want (Medina to St. Ed’s; Bowling Green to Toledo Central; Wadsworth to Walsh Jesuit.) That’s all fine and well, and the purpose of the CBP rule addresses that liberty. With the DoC your options of school choice are narrow. Diocese argued that to OHSAA, likely with some legal brass at the table, and the exception came through.

[greygoose]

If Hartley is the real deal then how come they had trouble beating a D-V Harvest Prep I mean is Prep that good? I haven't seen either of them play

If Ironton is the real deal hows come they can only run it up on teams like wellston & peake but struggle w good teams?

Same logic.

It's ok coach, we all know Ironton hurt you bad, just let it heal. I mean even in a thread about Bishop Hartley you want to talk about Ironton, it's an amazing talent. You take any team or game and discuss Ironton, maybe you should call up the Ironton faithful and hash it out

[greygoose]

If Ironton is the real deal hows come they can only run it up on teams like wellston & peake but struggle w good teams?

Same logic.

It's ok coach, we all know Ironton hurt you bad, just let it heal. I mean even in a thread about Bishop Hartley you want to talk about Ironton, it's an amazing talent. You take any team or game and discuss Ironton, maybe you should call up the Ironton faithful and hash it out

Coach lmao. Again my guy, I was intersted in having a semi succesfull and healthy existence and thankfully so were my folks once upon a time cause their 1st step way back when I was a kid was leaving SEO in the rear view. Ya gonna have to work a lil harder to divert from the facts I share.

Come on man hug it out.....you have to know from a psychological standpoint nothing is ever left in the rear view mirror especially when it's discussed so much by a 40 year old you left as a kid. Let it out brother....