Logan, Teays Valley invited to join OCC

[Raider6309]

It's easy to count your cookies now Raider. The Chiefs won't be way down in the gutter forever. It's a heavy hefty league, but the Chiefs will compete sooner or later. Bank on it. It's a good decision IMO. Get in there with the big boys like a big school should!

Was hoping Logan could get in the MVL or the LCL.

Pick Central
Teays Valley
Logan
Newark
Reynoldsburg
Lancaster
Canal Winchester
Groveport Madison

[noreply66]

Logan will be lucky to win a game. Be the dumbest decision in Logan history to join the OCC

The dumbest decision in the world history is the TVC taking Athens.

[noreply66]

First off, I think it’s great that Logan will be in a league finally. However, I am deeply concerned about the structure of the new division including Reynoldsburg and Pickerington Central. I believe these two schools, namely Pickerington Central, will be the constant kings of this division. There will be no real competition we can provide them. I honestly see a level of competitive imbalance over 5-8 years that would have Logan, and others in this division, exploring fracturing from the OCC to create their own league.

agree

[noreply66]

Logan will be lucky to win a game. Be the dumbest decision in Logan history to join the OCC

At least Logan is challenging itself to get better. Athens ran from the SEOAL to join a Division IV-VI conference.

Raider will always put a team down that has a winning record against the pups. That is far as his intelligence goes.

[formerfcfan]

Well, looks like Jim Hayes came out and said we're not going to the Buckeye.

[Raider6309]

Well, looks like Jim Hayes came out and said we're not going to the Buckeye.

He gets Pick Central and will like it

[formerfcfan]

Well, looks like Jim Hayes came out and said we're not going to the Buckeye.

He gets Pick Central and will like it

I respect that he does what he thinks is in the best interest of his school, and in the best interests of the league.

That said, I feel that he lacks awareness at times when he talks.

“I know speaking as the commissioner of the MSL that our other two divisions would like to have the chemistry that the Buckeye Division schools have."

Like, yeah, man, the Cardinal and Ohio Divisions are pretty dysfunctional. That's what happens when you add schools who have no history and few, if any, common denominators to compete into those divisions.

If the Buckeye schools did talk and said "yeah you know we want to just stay at 7", all good. No complaints from me. I do doubt that happened, already, however, but if it did then I get it. The way it sounds in Brad's article, it reads as if Jim himself poured cold water on that idea.

Has he ever considered why BU/FC keep getting brought up over the years, online and in circles, as a speculated candidate for the Buckeye? As in, maybe the league they got steered into 9 years ago became a boondoggle with lots of problems that are pretty much not fixable?

[bman]

At least Logan is challenging itself to get better. Athens ran from the SEOAL to join a Division IV-VI conference.

You still mad Logan Elm dropped Athens

Logan Elm is playing in The Plains sometime in mid-January.

I see you remember the fantastic result the last time Logan Elm and Athens played in the Convo. Is it still raining threes down there?

[bman]

Well, looks like Jim Hayes came out and said we're not going to the Buckeye.

He gets Pick Central and will like it

I respect that he does what he thinks is in the best interest of his school, and in the best interests of the league.

That said, I feel that he lacks awareness at times when he talks.

“I know speaking as the commissioner of the MSL that our other two divisions would like to have the chemistry that the Buckeye Division schools have."

Like, yeah, man, the Cardinal and Ohio Divisions are pretty dysfunctional. That's what happens when you add schools who have no history and few, if any, common denominators to compete into those divisions.

If the Buckeye schools did talk and said "yeah you know we want to just stay at 7", all good. No complaints from me. I do doubt that happened, already, however, but if it did then I get it. The way it sounds in Brad's article, it reads as if Jim himself poured cold water on that idea.

Has he ever considered why BU/FC keep getting brought up over the years, online and in circles, as a speculated candidate for the Buckeye? As in, maybe the league they got steered into 9 years ago became a boondoggle with lots of problems that are pretty much not fixable?

Jim tries to be as flexible as he can with the membership and he was basically throwing the ball into the Buckeye Division's court. He's fine if they want to go to eight or stay at seven, but he doesn't see many available schools that would really fit in the Buckeye Division. Maybe that will change.

As far as Fisher and Berne Union go, I doubt the Cardinal Division could survive if it lost those two schools. I also don't believe those schools make sense for the Buckeye Division. It's very easy to operate a seven-school division until you can find an eighth with the exception of football. So, if it comes down to a football decision, does it make sense to add a Division VII school that is going to get waxed by two-thirds of the league?

Ultimately, the issues of the league go back 15 years ago. when we basically had a Cold War between the Buckeye and Ohio Divisions. The Buckeye won the Cold War, but losing all of the Licking schools hurt the other two divisions.

If the Cardinal today had Newark Catholic, Liberty Union and Grandview Heights to go with Berne Union and Fisher Catholic, it would be a much stronger division. To keep the Ohio Division viable after all the Licking schools left, they had to try the Madison County expansion and after that didn't work, they had to move LU to the Ohio for football temporarily,, send Harvest Prep for football-only and then take in Ready and Buckeye Valley.

Personally, I would like to move HT to the Ohio and Grandview to the Cardinal. Adding Grandview would help the Cardinal in my view. Then I'd like to bring Washington Court House and Miami Trace into the Buckeye. Those two schools have good support, nice facilities and fit in the culture of the division. I doubt the Fairfield schools would like it, however, especially Bloom-Carroll, Liberty Union and Fairfield Union due to district and/or travel considerations.

[formerfcfan]

He gets Pick Central and will like it

I respect that he does what he thinks is in the best interest of his school, and in the best interests of the league.

That said, I feel that he lacks awareness at times when he talks.

“I know speaking as the commissioner of the MSL that our other two divisions would like to have the chemistry that the Buckeye Division schools have."

Like, yeah, man, the Cardinal and Ohio Divisions are pretty dysfunctional. That's what happens when you add schools who have no history and few, if any, common denominators to compete into those divisions.

If the Buckeye schools did talk and said "yeah you know we want to just stay at 7", all good. No complaints from me. I do doubt that happened, already, however, but if it did then I get it. The way it sounds in Brad's article, it reads as if Jim himself poured cold water on that idea.

Has he ever considered why BU/FC keep getting brought up over the years, online and in circles, as a speculated candidate for the Buckeye? As in, maybe the league they got steered into 9 years ago became a boondoggle with lots of problems that are pretty much not fixable?

Jim tries to be as flexible as he can with the membership and he was basically throwing the ball into the Buckeye Division's court. He's fine if they want to go to eight or stay at seven, but he doesn't see many available schools that would really fit in the Buckeye Division. Maybe that will change.

As far as Fisher and Berne Union go, I doubt the Cardinal Division could survive if it lost those two schools. I also don't believe those schools make sense for the Buckeye Division. It's very easy to operate a seven-school division until you can find an eighth with the exception of football. So, if it comes down to a football decision, does it make sense to add a Division VII school that is going to get waxed by two-thirds of the league?

Ultimately, the issues of the league go back 15 years ago. when we basically had a Cold War between the Buckeye and Ohio Divisions. The Buckeye won the Cold War, but losing all of the Licking schools hurt the other two divisions.

If the Cardinal today had Newark Catholic, Liberty Union and Grandview Heights to go with Berne Union and Fisher Catholic, it would be a much stronger division. To keep the Ohio Division viable after all the Licking schools left, they had to try the Madison County expansion and after that didn't work, they had to move LU to the Ohio for football temporarily,, send Harvest Prep for football-only and then take in Ready and Buckeye Valley.

My man, thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate you -- your work, consideration and kindness.

re: flexibility of membership -- league really just got too large (24 schools, counting Teays Valley along with CSG in the Ohio) with too wide of a footprint and too much diversity of school size/composition/status/resources, IMO. That said, your "Cold War" comment hit the hammer on the head of the nail. Full disclosure: we are very upset at the possibility of a ninth school being added to the Cardinal, which will be taken to a vote in December, and unfortunately I have no idea why Jim thought it was even a remotely good idea for it to get this far to where it will be voted upon.

re: Buckeye -- I'm convinced we would have at least three possible "yay" votes out of the 7. I'm convinced that BU also has at least three possible "yay"s but they may not be from the same schools. 3 is obviously not 7, not even close. I'm really curious if another Buckeye school may leave. That would dramatically change the calculus of the discussion.

I think one concern the Buckeye schools are going to have to square away down the road is if people start kvetching about it being a '7' team league. If it somehow became a 6-team league, yikes. But that's another discussion for a different day. Buckeye is at 7, currently.

I would kill for the Cardinal of yesteryear. Any iteration. Your mention of NC, LU, and GH warms the cockles of my heart. It does.

It disappoints me that both BU and FC are two communities who tirelessly work their collective asses off in their respective sports-spheres (facilities, programs health) and they're basically the only kindred spirits in the Cardinal. It frustrates me, to an extent, that either of our schools could get passed over in favor of an unfilled spot in the Buckeye. However, I know that the administrations at the Buckeye schools are consummate professionals who are trying their hardest -- tirelessly -- to look out for their students and sports-school communities. I would not want either of our schools to be invited out of pity.

Let it be known that nothing is off the table in the eyes of FC. Doesn't mean we're automatically making a move, mind you. It does mean that there will be very thorough examination and discussion to see if the Cardinal provides both the best opportunities for our kids and the means to make those opportunities possible (take a good guess what I'm saying here.) That's even without an imaginary invite to the Buckeye.

In a hypothetical, just for S's and G's, if Berne were to get an invite to the Buckeye but not us, I would have nothing but the utmost appreciation and respect for both parties. I think everyone in FC land would feel the same way. We'd want to see Berne take it, if they want it. It'd be an awesome opportunity for their community and kids. No resentment, no jealousy... we may be bitter rivals but when we look at the tea-leaves I think both schools want to see each other eat if there's food in the bowl. As for us in that situation, I think I know what will happen. And I'm excited by that possibility.

It's no secret we need the Buckeye {or at least something else} way more than the Buckeye needs us. But, darn, how awesome would that look?

[bman]

I respect that he does what he thinks is in the best interest of his school, and in the best interests of the league.

That said, I feel that he lacks awareness at times when he talks.


Like, yeah, man, the Cardinal and Ohio Divisions are pretty dysfunctional. That's what happens when you add schools who have no history and few, if any, common denominators to compete into those divisions.

If the Buckeye schools did talk and said "yeah you know we want to just stay at 7", all good. No complaints from me. I do doubt that happened, already, however, but if it did then I get it. The way it sounds in Brad's article, it reads as if Jim himself poured cold water on that idea.

Has he ever considered why BU/FC keep getting brought up over the years, online and in circles, as a speculated candidate for the Buckeye? As in, maybe the league they got steered into 9 years ago became a boondoggle with lots of problems that are pretty much not fixable?

Jim tries to be as flexible as he can with the membership and he was basically throwing the ball into the Buckeye Division's court. He's fine if they want to go to eight or stay at seven, but he doesn't see many available schools that would really fit in the Buckeye Division. Maybe that will change.

As far as Fisher and Berne Union go, I doubt the Cardinal Division could survive if it lost those two schools. I also don't believe those schools make sense for the Buckeye Division. It's very easy to operate a seven-school division until you can find an eighth with the exception of football. So, if it comes down to a football decision, does it make sense to add a Division VII school that is going to get waxed by two-thirds of the league?

Ultimately, the issues of the league go back 15 years ago. when we basically had a Cold War between the Buckeye and Ohio Divisions. The Buckeye won the Cold War, but losing all of the Licking schools hurt the other two divisions.

If the Cardinal today had Newark Catholic, Liberty Union and Grandview Heights to go with Berne Union and Fisher Catholic, it would be a much stronger division. To keep the Ohio Division viable after all the Licking schools left, they had to try the Madison County expansion and after that didn't work, they had to move LU to the Ohio for football temporarily,, send Harvest Prep for football-only and then take in Ready and Buckeye Valley.

My man, thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate you -- your work, consideration and kindness.

re: flexibility of membership -- league really just got too large (24 schools, counting Teays Valley along with CSG in the Ohio) with too wide of a footprint and too much diversity of school size/composition/status/resources, IMO. That said, your "Cold War" comment hit the hammer on the head of the nail. Full disclosure: we are very upset at the possibility of a ninth school being added to the Cardinal, which will be taken to a vote in December, and unfortunately I have no idea why Jim thought it was even a remotely good idea for it to get this far to where it will be voted upon.

re: Buckeye -- I'm convinced we would have at least three possible "yay" votes out of the 7. I'm convinced that BU also has at least three possible "yay"s but they may not be from the same schools. 3 is obviously not 7, not even close. I'm really curious if another Buckeye school may leave. That would dramatically change the calculus of the discussion.

I think one concern the Buckeye schools are going to have to square away down the road is if people start kvetching about it being a '7' team league. If it somehow became a 6-team league, yikes. But that's another discussion for a different day. Buckeye is at 7, currently.

I would kill for the Cardinal of yesteryear. Any iteration. Your mention of NC, LU, and GH warms the cockles of my heart. It does.

It disappoints me that both BU and FC are two communities who tirelessly work their collective asses off in their respective sports-spheres (facilities, programs health) and they're basically the only kindred spirits in the Cardinal. It frustrates me, to an extent, that either of our schools could get passed over in favor of an unfilled spot in the Buckeye. However, I know that the administrations at the Buckeye schools are consummate professionals who are trying their hardest -- tirelessly -- to look out for their students and sports-school communities. I would not want either of our schools to be invited out of pity.

In a hypothetical, just for S's and G's, if Berne were to get an invite to the Buckeye but not us, I would have nothing but the utmost appreciation and respect for both parties. I think everyone in FC land would feel the same way. We'd want to see Berne take it, if they want it. It'd be an awesome opportunity for their community and kids. No resentment, no jealousy... we may be bitter rivals but when we look at the tea-leaves I think both schools want to see each other eat if there's food in the bowl. As for us in that situation, I think I know what will happen. And I'm excited by that possibility.

It's no secret we need the Buckeye way more than the Buckeye needs us. But, darn, how awesome would that look?

Frankly, I think we are seeing the last decade or so of the Buckeye Division. Obetz and the Bloom-Carroll townships are really growing and I can see them where Teays Valley is now in another decade where they need to move onto the OCC or another conference like that. When that time comes, the Buckeye is down to five schools and at that point I can see the schools Circleville, Logan Elm, Amanda turning south, Fairfield Union turning east and Liberty Union turning north.

I know I've seen some interesting internet chatter about stuff for the Ohio and Cardinal divisions. Obviously, since my article was related to the Buckeye, I didn't get into that with Jim. There could be an argument made that it would have been best to try and save one of the other two divisions after the Licking schools left and bid the rest of the remaining schools a fond farewell. The MSL tried to keep its remaining members together and to try and keep viable divisions, they really had to expand the footprint of the league. The Cardinal going from Grove City to Zanesville is tough, as well as the Ohio schools having to make the drive to Buckeye Valley.

As for Berne and Fisher, I've heard that Berne has numbers issues potentially upcoming for football. I just don't see where either of them makes sense for the Buckeye Division, especially for football. If this was 15-20 years ago, Fisher and Westfall would have both been two nice options to where maybe you move HT to the Ohio to help stabilize that division and send Grandview to the Cardinal where they really belong.

Berne and Fisher are two long-time members of the MSL and I know that seeing the Cardinal Division take some tough hits has not been easy for them. It's why LU wanted out of the Cardinal and why Fisher/BU would probably prefer to play Amanda, FU, BC and LU and take some potential beatings over playing Miller and Rosecrans.

Thank you for your kind comments and I appreciate your support of the Mid-State League.

[Raider6309]

Logan Elm is playing in The Plains sometime in mid-January.

I see you remember the fantastic result the last time Logan Elm and Athens played in the Convo. Is it still raining threes down there?

Giving me nightmares from that game

[bman]

Logan Elm is playing in The Plains sometime in mid-January.

I see you remember the fantastic result the last time Logan Elm and Athens played in the Convo. Is it still raining threes down there?

Giving me nightmares from that game

It's okay. Joe Burrow is still throwing dimes against our football team, although that was a great game to watch and I was proud of the way Logan Elm competed.

[LongTime]

The last comments talking about the MSL miracously doesn't even mention the team that has run the conference for the last 8 yrs Harvest Prep. Honestly, when it comes to football - the Cardinal and Ohio just aren't that good in football. Prep has a good non league schedule next yr w Bloom Carroll, Eastmoor and Hartley. They have to build in those caliber teams to get playoff ready. They have found it to be true, you have to play tougher competition to build a program.

You can ignore Coach Smith and the Warriors all you want, but they just keep winning. They are treated so bad in those league meetings yr after yr it is downright shameful in this day and age.
Given that, great respect to these programs: FC, BV, Hartley, Bexley and CA.

Congrats on TV and Logan if the OCC move gets approved. I'm sure it will.

[The Exile]

I think Harvest Prep hasn't come up much because the focus has been on the Buckeye Division. I don't think anyone overlooks the football program they have built there. That said, HP isn't a good candidate for the Buckeye Division. I have no idea how they've been the past few years, but other sports outside of girls/boys basketball used to struggle mightily there, even to the point of not fielding teams (esp. jv) or being overwhelmed (softball/baseball come to mind). Maybe that has improved.

[NYBuckeye96]

I’m surprised they won’t have Pickerington North in the same division as Pickerington Central. I wonder why the OCC has never been strictly geographical, just kinda sorta geographical? Is it to give the same town more opportunities for conference championships? Sometimes they are together and sometimes they are not. They switch them up a lot it seems.

[Chief02]

I’m surprised they won’t have Pickerington North in the same division as Pickerington Central. I wonder why the OCC has never been strictly geographical, just kinda sorta geographical? Is it to give the same town more opportunities for conference championships? Sometimes they are together and sometimes they are not. They switch them up a lot it seems.

From my understanding, Pickerington North and Pickerington Central are adamantly opposed to being in the same division.

[loganlocos]

I’m surprised they won’t have Pickerington North in the same division as Pickerington Central. I wonder why the OCC has never been strictly geographical, just kinda sorta geographical? Is it to give the same town more opportunities for conference championships? Sometimes they are together and sometimes they are not. They switch them up a lot it seems.

chief02 is correct.

Those two schools do NOT want to be in the same division. They know they can be each be top dogs in their division and still play "non-league" games against eachother.

[NYBuckeye96]

I wonder how Logan will go about filling the non-league schedule? Looks like it will be three games. A mixup of rotating historical rivals? Athens, Nelsonville-York, New Lexington, Jackson, etc. maybe?

[loganlocos]

I wonder how Logan will go about filling the non-league schedule? Looks like it will be three games. A mixup of rotating historical rivals? Athens, Nelsonville-York, New Lexington, Jackson, etc. maybe?

I would like Jackson and Athens to be permanent.

But since Athens has been trying to get out of playing Logan in football my guess is they will use this excuse to end the series. Then when they have another D1 QB like Lichtenburg, Gregory, or Burrow they'll ask everyone why Logan dropped them, LOL