Valley 7 - 60 Waverly 2022

[pmow3]

Nobody wants us to turn this around more than me. We will get there once we get the kids in the weight room, and the kids commit and decide they’re gonna do a job. But I’m not gonna call out a first year coaching staff or any of the kids personally, when it’s been going on for 7 years. We are 21-37 in our last 6 years.
It will take some time.

[Fan of the youth]

Thanks for the stats. Waverly was impressive. I was happy to see that Valley held waverly to around 130 yards rushing with the starters. The young man that broke the run late was quick!

[jujubean]

Since moving to SOC2 in 2006, Valley is 37-39 in conference play. Breaking it down further, the first 10 seasons in SOC2, Valley is 32-17. That means the last 6 seasons (not counting this one), Valley is 5-22 in conference play.
That also corresponds with overall records: (2006-2015) 85-29 and (2016-2021) 21-39-2.

We have roughly 30 kids dressing right now because of injuries. Of those dressing, at least 11 are Freshmen, another 8 are sophomores.

[ValleyStrong]

Well. It’s not one group’s fault at all. It’s a numbers issue and playing bigger schools. I tried to make that point earlier that we haven’t been very good against these bigger schools in 6-7 years. It is hardly any of the kids fault, just as it is hardly any of the coaches faults.
Our numbers are down in the school system. Plain and simple. The kids that are out there trying are fine. And they are appreciated!!

So i guess it must be what it i since it is neither coaches or kids fault right? So lets give everyone a trophy for trying right? It is the fault of the decision makers, which in this case is the DC.

If the defense cannot perform the 4-4 , and struggle all year, why not change the defense? Yes ,i know the 4-4 or 4-3 is awesome and the best ever, but if you dont have the right mix of kids it does not work. Seems simple to me. If not enough strength in LB core to run 4 then lower it to 3 line backers. Heck swap to a 5-2 use 2 current lb's as faster down lineman on defense, save the bigger guys till goal line.

Ofense has adjusted all year, and made changes as needed, defensively we have not. Paper makes every defense or offense look good, and yes it should work flawlessly, but we dont have the personnel needed to do it. So that is a Coaching call...specifically the DC. Time to go to the drawing board,

I’m fine with changing schemes or whatever works. Sure.
But was it the DC’s fault last year vs Waverly? 42-14. Or 2 years ago?
56-10?
People are acting like this is a new problem and changing a few guys around will fix it. It’s gonna take a few years, not a few days.
But yeah sure, if a scheme change will make a difference, I’m all for it. I don’t think it will.
Go look up the results vs Waverly In the last 7 years. We will improve but it will take a little while. That’s all I’m saying.

The truth is it has been a problem for at least 4 years. Same errors, same problems defensively. Watch film from the past. So with that being said, you know the problems are there in schemes, and personnel positions.

Years comimg up, players may be coming, that is awesome. However, if the same errors occur then what does it change? Nothing. Horses are awesome but they have to be ablee to perform against 18 or 19 year olds as what freshman? Quick way to damage the horses. It is not likely going to help for at least 2 years.

So with the kids we currently have, what do we do? Say it is what ot is, or put them in positions, and alignments that work for them. Paper plans are awesome, but they don't always work, as we have been seeing.

No matter first year or year 10 with the staff, you have to adjust too the kids you have and their abilities. Part of coaching is taking flak, and praise. Blaming kids is the easy route, and one that should not be discussed here.

[Tigernation2021]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

[ValleyStrong]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

You see it, most of see it. So now do we correct and move forward or continue the same path as we have? Yes patience is needed for new schemes, but show me the new defensive schemes change, same schemes diferrent terminology a few more stunts, same errors as years past. Offensively a few new schemes, and plays but pretty well the same.

Time to drop until numbers come up, and the formulas start working well. This is not the conference to rebuild a team in. It is a conference that will chew you up and spit you out, so we need to get the kids ready. My vote is we move down, Northwest move up they have had plenty of time to fix the problems. #'s alone they should not be down.

[transplant]

I agree. Move down. We are winning games we should at the jr high level this year. Valley is a smaller school now days. Time to play schools our size.

[Tigernation2021]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

You see it, most of see it. So now do we correct and move forward or continue the same path as we have? Yes patience is needed for new schemes, but show me the new defensive schemes change, same schemes diferrent terminology a few more stunts, same errors as years past. Offensively a few new schemes, and plays but pretty well the same.

Time to drop until numbers come up, and the formulas start working well. This is not the conference to rebuild a team in. It is a conference that will chew you up and spit you out, so we need to get the kids ready. My vote is we move down, Northwest move up they have had plenty of time to fix the problems. #'s alone they should not be down.

Exactly, Valley as with several teams in the area and I hate to get into on here but I will, is the reason why conferences like the OVC and SOC really need to step back and take a look at the landscaping. Does Valley deserve to be in SOC1? Absolutely not they'd destroy that division but they're a team in limbo and a team on the brink of going DVII. There are teams within those divisions that could be grouped together to make really strong divisions within a conference. Just look at the stands for Valley friday night it was HOF induction night and I'd say it looked to be about 25% full if that which tells you what the community and the fans think. Now if we can break into even competition across the board in these divisions then we start to see better football, more people showing up and more people coming out. Oak Hill absolutely destroyed SOC1 competition when they were playing down and had 40-50 guys on the team, now they're getting beat down with no help in site and have 20 guys on the team it's no coincidence the idea of kids playing for the love of the game doesn't hold water when you get it handed to you. You could take the SOC and OVC and combine them and break them into 3 divisions, now look at it from Valley stand point if your division has, Northwest, Oak Hill, Rock Hill, Valley, Chesapeake, South Point and Minford in it just throwing out names of teams I think could be lumped in together that would be matched evenly across the board with competitive football every week. You see that as your division and you don't see a bully at the top, you see parity.

[ValleyStrong]

I agree. Move down. We are winning games we should at the jr high level this year. Valley is a smaller school now days. Time to play schools our size.

Exactly...we are small and should play a schedule comparable in #'s. Injuries are real, and a handful kills a small school program. It is facts not degrading or insulting. It is what it is, and we need to be willing ro change our attitudes on moving down. It is the responsible, and correct move. We are small and that is ok, we have kids who have drive, and that is why Valley has always done well, or has been competitive.

[Oldtimer55]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

You see it, most of see it. So now do we correct and move forward or continue the same path as we have? Yes patience is needed for new schemes, but show me the new defensive schemes change, same schemes diferrent terminology a few more stunts, same errors as years past. Offensively a few new schemes, and plays but pretty well the same.

Time to drop until numbers come up, and the formulas start working well. This is not the conference to rebuild a team in. It is a conference that will chew you up and spit you out, so we need to get the kids ready. My vote is we move down, Northwest move up they have had plenty of time to fix the problems. #'s alone they should not be down.

Northwest did move up effective next season 2023…..there will be a 6 game SOC II schedule with 4 non conference games….. nobody is moving down to SOC I before 2023 as schedules are set

[Tigernation2021]

I don't see how any of the valley faithful would actually think moving down to SOC1 is the answer, maybe the score from last night still hurts and it's clouding your judgement. Let's keep in this in mind as I stated above do I think something should happen absolutely but by the time it does who knows where teams will stand, going to SOC1 isn't the answer. To put into context Valley who everyone has agreed is on the downward side of things has played Eastern Pike each of the last 2 years, Eastern Pike being one of the larger numbered SOC1 schools which doesn't equal numbers. Valley beat them last year 42-7 and it could've been worse, and beat them 35-0 this year and could've been worse and everyone knows it. Eastern Pike might possibly be the #2/3 team in the conference this year as they've beaten both East and Symmes Valley in back to back weeks now. Yes, I know you've lost to NW but NW is moving up next year, so in looking at those 2 scores and what "might" possibly be the #2/3 team in SOC1 play do you really feel that's the move for Valley?? Or are you just looking/wanting to move down to beat up on those schools for a few years?? To me does something need done yes, but moving down isn't the answer and I think any of you that watched the Eastern Pike game knows that's not the answer either.

[sportsfan2244]

No Valley does not need in SOC I. It’s just been a down 2 years or so for valley. They have the kids coming up, give them time. Yes Valley may be out matched but to give up as many points as they have this season then something has to change.

[ValleyStrong]

So what is the answer? Coaching is right? Kids are right? Everything is right? I keep hearing this, yes the move down is not the favorite option, but what option is better? This is not new the numbers are low, school size is not as big. Bigger schools are happy to keep us up, and schools our size don't want us.

So if everything is ok, and good what is happening? I am sorry but I disagree, our kids need time, and the program needs time to rebuild. Dont like it and want to stay, and continue this path then the future could be directly affected. I think adults dont want the move, we need to ask what is in the kids best interest?

[Tigernation2021]

So what is the answer? Coaching is right? Kids are right? Everything is right? I keep hearing this, yes the move down is not the favorite option, bit what option is better? This is not new the numbers are low, school size is not as big. Bigger schools are happy to keep us up, and schools our size don't want us.

So if everything is ok, and good what is happening? I am sorry but I disagree, our kids need time, and the program needs time to rebuild. Dont like it and want to stay, and continue this path then the future could be directly affected. I think adults dont want the move, we need to ask what is in the kids best interest?

Valley needs to be one of those schools that should push for change, you're saying bigger schools are happy to keep ya and schools your size don't want you. The problem I see with your argument is that Valley has always been the small school on the block and played well for many years and there wasn't a single complaint, now you've got a down swing and your solution is to tuck and run. They wanted out of SOC1 back in the day because they were beating everyone and not getting points, now you want them to go back down and beat on those teams. You want to ask what is best for the kids, are you asking that for the Valley kids or are you asking that for the P. East, Green and Eastern Pike kids as well?? It's why Northwest is being moved back up they finally got built up, Northwest was never at any time at the high level Valley has played at they were always that doormat for SOCII. As a Valley fans you look at your team and be honest with yourself have we improved over the season? Do we look no better now than in week 1? At that point you have to start looking at coaching, good coaches improve players as the season moves on they improve as coaches as the season moves on. It doesn't necessarily equal wins and losses but being competitive, are we still making the same mistakes, do we still not have a QB figured out, things of this nature. You wanted the answer and I told you Valley and I would hope other teams should begin talks of league expansion and divisions. Also don't forget why this is a football forum there's more to teams in a conference than just football. Valley even in SOCII is one of the favorites to win the title in basketball this year.

[dirt_cinders]

So what is the answer? Coaching is right? Kids are right? Everything is right? I keep hearing this, yes the move down is not the favorite option, but what option is better? This is not new the numbers are low, school size is not as big. Bigger schools are happy to keep us up, and schools our size don't want us.

So if everything is ok, and good what is happening? I am sorry but I disagree, our kids need time, and the program needs time to rebuild. Dont like it and want to stay, and continue this path then the future could be directly affected. I think adults dont want the move, we need to ask what is in the kids best interest?

Give the SOCI schools the same consideration you want. They are all D7 with exception of Eastern (relatively new FB school). The SOCI schools and kids should not be the doormat of those schools that come upon hard times in the SOC2. Valley should be in a conference in between the two. If they come down they would see their numbers increase and abuse the really small schools. The Northwest situation has proven that. I suspect NW numbers will once again start to drop off once they run into some tough seasons also. It will take a few years to see if that becomes reality. It kinds seems like the smaller schools and kids situation should Valley move down is irrelevant. Valley would then be the biggest school.

[Izladoom]

Something definitely needs to change for valley because year after year of getting stomped in the division is only going to have more kids transferring out. Next few years we will be looking at a 2-3 win season. Valley has some of the best athletes in the county the basketball and baseball teams prove that. I think that’s why it’s so hard to watch this football teams at times because you know what these kids should be able to do. When you have players as good as arnett and nickel and all of the other great kids they should be at least be competitive. I believe in the coaches but we do have one of the least football experienced staffs around. They will figure things out but it’s going to be tough to watch till they do at times.

[FIDO]

I dont have a stake in the community. Im an alumni and lifelong fan. Those closest to program knows best. I do know you need at least 16 to 18 strong athletes to have a realistic chance to compete against the stronger teams. You have to keep the kids fresh, because what we have seen is Valley gets gassed in the second half.

How many players currently play both ways? Its is hard and kids get tired. Tired players make big mistakes

PMOW3 was one of the first to produce a 3 division conference. I dont remember all the teams involved but each division was very solid. If the community wants to go back who am i to argue.

Waverly departing weakens the league tremendously. Id never be an advocate of such a move.

Anyway, best wishes always!

[Izladoom]

I dont have a stake in the community. Im an alumni and lifelong fan. Those closest to program knows best. I do know you need at least 16 to 18 strong athletes to have a realistic chance to compete against the stronger teams. You have to keep the kids fresh, because what we have seen is Valley gets gassed in the second half.

How many players currently play both ways? Its is hard and kids get tired. Tired players make big mistakes

PMOW3 was one of the first to produce a 3 division conference. I dont remember all the teams involved but each division was very solid. If the community wants to go back who am i to argue.

Waverly departing weakens the league tremendously. Id never be an advocate of such a move.

Anyway, best wishes always!

Every kid plays both ways

[FIDO]

If that's the case, it is no wonder why we dont compete in the 2nd half of games.

[pmow3]

I dont have a stake in the community. Im an alumni and lifelong fan. Those closest to program knows best. I do know you need at least 16 to 18 strong athletes to have a realistic chance to compete against the stronger teams. You have to keep the kids fresh, because what we have seen is Valley gets gassed in the second half.

How many players currently play both ways? Its is hard and kids get tired. Tired players make big mistakes

PMOW3 was one of the first to produce a 3 division conference. I dont remember all the teams involved but each division was very solid. If the community wants to go back who am i to argue.

Waverly departing weakens the league tremendously. Id never be an advocate of such a move.

Anyway, best wishes always!

Thanks Fido. I’ll try to find that post. It’s from 2010. Lol
But it basically was this…

Division 1
Ironton
Burg
Portsmouth
Waverly
West
Fairland
Gallia

Division 2
Valley
Minford
Rock hill
South point
Coal grove
Oak hill
Northwest
Chesapeake

Division 3
Whoever I didn’t mention
ND
East
Green
Eastern
SV
So Gallia
Whoever else

It would give all the teams 5-7 conference games and flexibility to schedule up on good years and schedule down on bad
It also would give each team a chance to keep their rivals they want.
It’s a no brainer. But it also would chop up 2 big conferences and both would have to swallow their pride and make it happen.