Valley 7 - 60 Waverly 2022

[ColdHardTruth]

I'm sorry for Valleys struggles for the parents who watch their kids go out there and compete night in and night out only to be judged by a bunch of anonymous keyboard warriors in this forum. I've been there in other sports and it's not a fun spot to be in.

No into Valley rejoining the SOC1...

IF... Valleys Enrollment numbers of male students from Freshman to Seniors have dropped them into the same Category as Notre Dame, Green, Symmes Valley, East.. then by all means, WELCOME them back to the SOC1. Which is where they were in my playing days.

BUT, as much as it sucks for those kids out there FIGHTING to be better, if their Enrollment numbers aren't equivalent we can't just let them go to the SOC1 to "Rebuild"..
SOC1 Schools usually average between 20-30 kids on a team if we're lucky. We don't have an option to step down from the SOC1 to a smaller conference to rebuild when our numbers dip into the low teens. We have to just play with what we have, win or lose.

It's not fair to the schools in the SOC1 to be denied Conference Championships and the ability to compete against similar schools just because a struggling SOC2 program feels they need to rebuild.
Oak Hill should of had to move up years before they did and North West should have never been allowed to step down.

I believe the last several SOC1 Championships have been Won by "SOC2" schools that were still playing in the SOC1 Conference for whatever reason.
So while it sucks to be in the SOC2 and struggling. It's not fair at all to ask actual SOC1 schools to compete against you for Conference Champuonships.

NOW... make their games not count towards SOC1 Standings but allow them to "Rebuild" that might be a situation that benefits everyone.

[LetsBeReal]

The Only Problem is…….. Time

Things change.

No one saw last night coming. Idk how the game ended like that but the final result was a shock to everyone. If Waverly and valley play I think that Waverly wins 8/10. That was a bizarre final for the talent level of both teams.

We live in rural Ohio to where there are drives for conference games that take almost an hour. Schools have ups and downs. There is no perfect situation and every proposal is nearly as bad as the next. Maybe Valley should move down. Maybe they shouldn’t. I don’t agree with a school that is almost D7 getting beat up all year by all bigger schools because other D7 schools don’t want beat up on. Valley should be in the playoffs if there are 16 seeds. Valley is constantly playing up. Playing in a weak conference won’t help them at all. Waverly isn’t the problem either. There is a reason Waverly sticks with the SOC. They have never dominated and it’s another school that keeps the conference competitive.

We can’t pick up a school and move it or create new ones. It is what it is. Sure there could be new conferences but it puts a lot of other schools in exile. Everyone has these super conferences but you see other teams left off. It’s not realistic for all of southern Ohio to accommodate the SOC because of things changing. Valley scheduled a tough non-conference while playing in a conference they are the little guys.

Valley deserves more credit. They know what they are doing and have a vision moving forward. Calm down and have faith.

[FIDO]

I dont have a stake in the community. Im an alumni and lifelong fan. Those closest to program knows best. I do know you need at least 16 to 18 strong athletes to have a realistic chance to compete against the stronger teams. You have to keep the kids fresh, because what we have seen is Valley gets gassed in the second half.

How many players currently play both ways? Its is hard and kids get tired. Tired players make big mistakes

PMOW3 was one of the first to produce a 3 division conference. I dont remember all the teams involved but each division was very solid. If the community wants to go back who am i to argue.

Waverly departing weakens the league tremendously. Id never be an advocate of such a move.

Anyway, best wishes always!

Thanks Fido. I’ll try to find that post. It’s from 2010. Lol
But it basically was this…

Division 1
Ironton
Burg
Portsmouth
Waverly
West
Fairland
Gallia

Division 2
Valley
Minford
Rock hill
South point
Coal grove
Oak hill
Northwest
Chesapeake

Division 3
Whoever I didn’t mention
ND
East
Green
Eastern
SV
So Gallia
Whoever else

It would give all the teams 5-7 conference games and flexibility to schedule up on good years and schedule down on bad
It also would give each team a chance to keep their rivals they want.
It’s a no brainer. But it also would chop up 2 big conferences and both would have to swallow their pride and make it happen.

It's even stronger now than when you first posted. Each division would be very competitive. I know it is a dream but Im old so it is ok

[coop]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

I’m not sure how many losses but I know Valley has defeated NW, Minford, and ND pretty handily in Jr high without their top 2-3 players playing…I haven’t seen all the scores of course but I know they have some very good players at those levels.

[Tigernation2021]

Dang, a lot coming from the Valley faithful right now. You have one person saying be patient, numbers are coming it doesn't matter if the numbers are coming if they can't play. Valley isn't beating teams in JH right now and the reality is you will lose numbers as they jump, numbers isn't he saving grace having numbers is nice for competition in practice and depth chart only. It's not what will propel you to win ball games, some of it might go hand in hand in that Waverly's schedule really has been over the top tough and it showed last night. Valley however was making some critical errors on defense, someone mentioned holding the starters to 130, but we threw it because it was there we never tried to strictly run. I will say this defensively I didn't think Valley was put in the best position, again wasn't going to stop the outcome but at least give them a fighting chance. The runs we had to the outside was because Valley overloaded the opposite and they were outnumbered that's scheme. Multiple times where the DBs were jumping to help the run on a play fake and getting beat on corner routes that's technique. Then to stay in the same thing for the entire game just made play calling that much easier on Waverly. Valley has just been in a downward swing at the moment hopefully things will improve but it's got to come from the top down, it's not going to be solved because you get to dress 38 players instead of 30.

I’m not sure how many losses but I know Valley has defeated NW, Minford, and ND pretty handily in Jr high without their top 2-3 players playing…I haven’t seen all the scores of course but I know they have some very good players at those levels.

Thinking they have 2-3 losses on the year if I heard correctly they lost a close one to Waverly and got beat pretty bad by West (but they destroyed everyone) not sure if they've played Burg yet or not. They do have a large group in that 8th grade. I'm really hoping they do something though with the current setup of the league, heard the Oak Hill junior high canceled on Waverly only to turn around and schedule Eastern Pike.

[ValleyStrong]

Jr. High wins does not equate to High School wins. Ask several schools around the area. It is nice for them to win, but equating that to HS success is not an accurate measuring tool. #'s matter, playing teams your size matters as well! We do play up, as everyone has said, so since we know that, what is the problem going back down? That is where Valley moved up from, and now #'s say it is time to go back. We are no where near the same team, or enrollment #'s of the past. Sad that adults don't want the move, so kids pay the price. Same as our defense Adults say it is petfect on paper so it has to be the kids fault, and not the strategy being wrong for the kids. As far as other sports it is not the same comparison to football. So please stop justifying the stay becasue baskerball, and other sports do fine in SOC2.

[transplant]

Exactly. With 16 teams getting in the playoffs now, I don’t think playing up matters as much. Years ago it hurt us because only 4 teams got in. Now it’s different. Play similar size schools. Simple as that.

[dirt_cinders]

Jr. High wins does not equate to High School wins. Ask several schools around the area. It is nice for them to win, but equating that to HS success is not an accurate measuring tool. #'s matter, playing teams your size matters as well! We do play up, as everyone has said, so since we know that, what is the problem going back down? That is where Valley moved up from, and now #'s say it is time to go back. We are no where near the same team, or enrollment #'s of the past. Sad that adults don't want the move, so kids pay the price. Same as our defense Adults say it is petfect on paper so it has to be the kids fault, and not the strategy being wrong for the kids. As far as other sports it is not the same comparison to football. So please stop justifying the stay becasue baskerball, and other sports do fine in SOC2.

Once again you do not give the smaller SOC I schools any consideration. You can see your dilemma but fail to see it for others. The NW move left a bad taste in those small schools mouth. South Gallia and I heard Manchester may be coming into the SOCI.....more D7 schools. I don't see a spot opening if those two join...and they are more appropriate for that conference.

[ValleyStrong]

Jr. High wins does not equate to High School wins. Ask several schools around the area. It is nice for them to win, but equating that to HS success is not an accurate measuring tool. #'s matter, playing teams your size matters as well! We do play up, as everyone has said, so since we know that, what is the problem going back down? That is where Valley moved up from, and now #'s say it is time to go back. We are no where near the same team, or enrollment #'s of the past. Sad that adults don't want the move, so kids pay the price. Same as our defense Adults say it is petfect on paper so it has to be the kids fault, and not the strategy being wrong for the kids. As far as other sports it is not the same comparison to football. So please stop justifying the stay becasue baskerball, and other sports do fine in SOC2.

Once again you do not give the smaller SOC I schools any consideration. You can see your dilemma but fail to see it for others. The NW move left a bad taste in those small schools mouth. South Gallia and I heard Manchester may be coming into the SOCI.....more D7 schools. I don't see a spot opening if those two join...and they are more appropriate for that conference.

Who set the conferences? Obviously a board, and teams who agree. Consideration for smaller schools Valley is a smaller school by comparison. As far as NW leaving a bad taste, then take that up with the board that allowed them to stay down when enrollment is up, and they shouldnt have been allowed to stay. That was a 3 year deaL that has turned into this mess you are taking about. Adults again choosing, and not seeing what is truly best for the kids. NW should have had to go independent, #'s alone did not make the move fair, and allowing them to stay for so long? Adult decisions. Valley #'s do not compare with the SOC2 schools nor does it compare with NW. Valley #'s are more comparable to that of SOC1 schools. So looking at the big picture I have taken into consideration the SOC 1 schools, and Valley fits there better then SOC2. Do we want to stay there ? No, but for now we need a few years to get #'s back up, and kids proficient in the new program.

[Dan-The-Man]

Valley does not have an inexperienced staff. Nolan is a 1st year head coach but has been a coordinator and on staff for what seems like a decade. They have an assistant who used to be a head coach. They have a DC who has college playing experience and has been on staff multiple places. They also have a line coach who played a Cincinnati and has coached multiple places.

I’ve seen a ton of new and good things, from the weight program to the offense changes.

But like I said in an earlier post, I don’t know why Nolan would want this job considering schedule and overall numbers. You are set up to fail. It’s a big fix that will require patience and support.

[dirt_cinders]

Jr. High wins does not equate to High School wins. Ask several schools around the area. It is nice for them to win, but equating that to HS success is not an accurate measuring tool. #'s matter, playing teams your size matters as well! We do play up, as everyone has said, so since we know that, what is the problem going back down? That is where Valley moved up from, and now #'s say it is time to go back. We are no where near the same team, or enrollment #'s of the past. Sad that adults don't want the move, so kids pay the price. Same as our defense Adults say it is petfect on paper so it has to be the kids fault, and not the strategy being wrong for the kids. As far as other sports it is not the same comparison to football. So please stop justifying the stay becasue baskerball, and other sports do fine in SOC2.

Once again you do not give the smaller SOC I schools any consideration. You can see your dilemma but fail to see it for others. The NW move left a bad taste in those small schools mouth. South Gallia and I heard Manchester may be coming into the SOCI.....more D7 schools. I don't see a spot opening if those two join...and they are more appropriate for that conference.

Who set the conferences? Obviously a board, and teams who agree. Consideration for smaller schools Valley is a smaller school by comparison. As far as NW leaving a bad taste, then take that up with the board that allowed them to stay down when enrollment is up, and they shouldnt have been allowed to stay. That was a 3 year deaL that has turned into this mess you are taking about. Adults again choosing, and not seeing what is truly best for the kids. NW should have had to go independent, #'s alone did not make the move fair, and allowing them to stay for so long? Adult decisions. Valley #'s do not compare with the SOC2 schools nor does it compare with NW. Valley #'s are more comparable to that of SOC1 schools. So looking at the big picture I have taken into consideration the SOC 1 schools, and Valley fits there better then SOC2. Do we want to stay there ? No, but for now we need a few years to get #'s back up, and kids proficient in the new program.

I understand how the board works --most people on this forum do.
SOCI is looking to add South Gallia and Manchester. That would be the much better move. That would put the number at 7 conference schools in SOCI and all much more similar in size - D7. A Valley move down would be similar to NW. Though not as big as NW, they would be the biggest school in the SOCI and no doubt follow the same path as Northwest. Like it or not, the Northwest move has made this move much more unlikely. Yes, I am sure all of this will be taken up with the board. I do not think schools in the SOCI will be in favor of bring Valley down. I think that is exactly why they have sought out and reached agreements with SG and Manchester.

Valley is in between --- my case would be for you to find a conference where you are middle of the row in size and have competitive games. What conference is that?

[Omega]

Valley does not have an inexperienced staff. Nolan is a 1st year head coach but has been a coordinator and on staff for what seems like a decade. They have an assistant who used to be a head coach. They have a DC who has college playing experience and has been on staff multiple places. They also have a line coach who played a Cincinnati and has coached multiple places.

I’ve seen a ton of new and good things, from the weight program to the offense changes.

But like I said in an earlier post, I don’t know why Nolan would want this job considering schedule and overall numbers. You are set up to fail. It’s a big fix that will require patience and support.

Patience and support is what Valley needs. Waverly was in a similar spot 7-8 years when current coach assumed his role. They took their lumps early on but with judicious scheduling and work to institute the building blocks of a program, Waverly's program is as such they are competitive within the league and in the playoffs.

Watching the game stream, the Indians have some nice talent, great facilities, and apparently qualified staff to have future success. So do not despair, just give the program a chance to develop .

[Izladoom]

Once again you do not give the smaller SOC I schools any consideration. You can see your dilemma but fail to see it for others. The NW move left a bad taste in those small schools mouth. South Gallia and I heard Manchester may be coming into the SOCI.....more D7 schools. I don't see a spot opening if those two join...and they are more appropriate for that conference.

Who set the conferences? Obviously a board, and teams who agree. Consideration for smaller schools Valley is a smaller school by comparison. As far as NW leaving a bad taste, then take that up with the board that allowed them to stay down when enrollment is up, and they shouldnt have been allowed to stay. That was a 3 year deaL that has turned into this mess you are taking about. Adults again choosing, and not seeing what is truly best for the kids. NW should have had to go independent, #'s alone did not make the move fair, and allowing them to stay for so long? Adult decisions. Valley #'s do not compare with the SOC2 schools nor does it compare with NW. Valley #'s are more comparable to that of SOC1 schools. So looking at the big picture I have taken into consideration the SOC 1 schools, and Valley fits there better then SOC2. Do we want to stay there ? No, but for now we need a few years to get #'s back up, and kids proficient in the new program.

I understand how the board works --most people on this forum do.
SOCI is looking to add South Gallia and Manchester. That would be the much better move. That would put the number at 7 conference schools in SOCI and all much more similar in size - D7. A Valley move down would be similar to NW. Though not as big as NW, they would be the biggest school in the SOCI and no doubt follow the same path as Northwest. Like it or not, the Northwest move has made this move much more unlikely. Yes, I am sure all of this will be taken up with the board. I do not think schools in the SOCI will be in favor of bring Valley down. I think that is exactly why they have sought out and reached agreements with SG and Manchester.

Valley is in between --- my case would be for you to find a conference where you are middle of the row in size and have competitive games. What conference is that?

Valley was only a few kids from being d7 and most expect them to be on the next count

[dirt_cinders]

[/quote]
Valley was only a few kids from being d7 and most expect them to be on the next count
[/quote]

Put this is a little context ---- Valley has been d6 out of 7 divisions since they started d7 in 2013. That is 10 out of the last 10 years.
We really do not know before 2013 because there were only 6 divisions -- so even East, Green etc were d6.

We are not sure Valley will be D7. Even if that was true, looking at the last 10 years it appears that D7 would be an anomaly of sorts and last what a year or two?

SOC2 may not be the answer for Valley but Valley in the SOCI may not be the answer for the other schools.

[Izladoom]

Valley was only a few kids from being d7 and most expect them to be on the next count
[/quote]

Put this is a little context ---- Valley has been d6 out of 7 divisions since they started d7 in 2013. That is 10 out of the last 10 years.
We really do not know before 2013 because there were only 6 divisions -- so even East, Green etc were d6.

We are not sure Valley will be D7. Even if that was true, looking at the last 10 years it appears that D7 would be an anomaly of sorts and last what a year or two?

SOC2 may not be the answer for Valley but Valley in the SOCI may not be the answer for the other schools.
[/quote]

Valleys overall enrollment is way down once they go d7 it’s not changing anytime soon and will only continue to get worse

[ValleyStrong]

Valley is currently what less then 8 to10 kids from being d7 currently, and has been close for past couple years. The numbers as Izladoom has said are not looking better. We thought we would be d7 this year, i understand SOC1 doesnt want Valley, but we do not have the#'s for SOC2. A D6 vs. D7 is better than a D5 playing D7 schools, and i am sure we will be D7 next count and for quite a few years following.
We have what 6 player's injured, which 2 are playing hurt, 3 transfers year prior. That is the lifeblood 9 kids who are or would have been starters. Valley deserves time down, they use to be, and moved up, and that is all we need is a few years to establish the new program, and no one will have to ask for us to move up. We want to be up, not down like others.
As far as not understanding why Coach Crabtree wanted to rake over ask him. Looking from outside in it looks as if he wants the best for Valley, and the community. Yeah the transition timing stinks due to enrollment, but he will get it back. Until that time comes though, our kids deserve a chance, and we are not in a conference that can provide that. Either add teams and go to 3 conference divisions, or allow us to drop. Plain and simple, this is about the current kids not history. Taking lumps while building is one thing, but you have to have#'s to build, which we are short on.

[NW97]

Not sure why some act like Northwest moved down and dominated. They have won one title and shared one in what, 8 years?

[ValleyStrong]

Not sure why some act like Northwest moved down and dominated. They have won one title and shared one in what, 8 years?

Truth is you shouldn't have been allowed to drop you should of went independent or found another league. You have one if not the largest enrollments in Scioto County. It was not equitable for any small school you play to agree to it, but the board vote allowed it. Wasn't it a 3 year deal, then 5 then 7? And it has kept going. You may have not dominated but the point was to drop rebuild then go back up not to continually ask to stay down. If the conference your size is not comparable then maybe look outside the box, because it takes 2 to 3 Soc1 schools to equal your size.. Now Valley needs time down and we are barely D6 and will most likely be a D7 school next year, but it will be impossible to get there because of NW'S irresponsibility of staying down so long. So yeah a little sour over this, adults not makimg responsible decisions rhat put kids first.

[NW97]

What is the correlation between Northwest staying down "too long" and Valley not being able to move down? Valley doesn't want to move down. Someone put the enrollment numbers on a thread here not too long ago. I don't think Northwest was near the top. And as far as soc the gap from waverly to the bottom of soc 2 was about as large as Northwest to the bottom of soc 1 schools but nobody cares about that. Look at Unioto compared to the rest of their division. I don't think Northwest ever should have went to soc1 either btw.

[ColdHardTruth]

So I pulled up some OHSAA's Competitive Balence Numbers for 2022.

Here's some of the local numbers.


Green 65
East 45
Symmes Valley 94
*Eastern 109
Notre Dame 48
South Gallia 75
*Manchester 108
*Western 93
(I put a * next to those schools as they have larger numbers than the usual SOC1 Schools but also just began having Football programs in the last 10 years.)

Northwest 160
Valley 122

Burg 176
Waverly 240
Rock Hill 148
Ironton 177
Coal Grove 131
Chesepeake 164
Fairland 185
Portsmouth 171
Oak Hill 147
Jackson 277

It's not fair to ask SOC1 Schools to Constantly have to play Schools with 2-3 times the enrollment for the sake of rebuilding. It should have never been allowed with Northwest. If those programs need to rebuild then drop from your conference and go independent until you think you can compete again.