September 15, 2023 Valley 0 - 35 Wheelersburg

[greygoose]

Nolan and staff are doing a good job with these kids. Young, 1 to 2 divisions smaller, and low #'s overall but especially in the trenches. Valley will be well prepared for this game, but #'s decide this game. 3 Conferences is the answer for Football in the SOC, if not State CB #'s should decide the alignments, not a bunch of coaches, and administrators, State #'s do not have a bias opinion.

No offense here but the #'s aren't deciding this game, Burg isn't going to wear Valley out and that's what'll decide the game. Burg is just simply better than Valley across the board should be a running clock in the 2nd half. I hope they can keep plugging away as it will be a tough year if the coach can keep them strong moving forward hopefully the results will payoff. You are correct in that something should be done in the SOC but it's not 3 divisions not with the current setup, only way you pull that off is if the SOC and OVC combine which I do believe is the answer.

#'s is everything! What is the State CB #'s for Burg? For Valley? Numbers decide a lot. Valley will play hard, and be well prepared, but balance the CB #'s/ and division sizes.

#'s is everything? It would if talent level is equal and you're saying one team simply wore down another. What's the numbers for Portsmouth, Piketon, a DVI Coal Grove team? See numbers aren't everything if you've got the horses to lineup and play a larger team you will compete just Valley isn't there right now no knock on them at all. It's just to say numbers are deciding this game seems a bit strange because you're making it sound like if it wasn't for Burg having more kids that Valley would be right there with them and that's not the case this year.

[RollCoal]

Coal Grove has 131 Boys. Lucasville 122

[ValleyStrong]

Division size of school and CB#'s decide this game, not only the horses. Horses need water too. SOC need to balance out, put schools playing comparable size schools, non-conference games are exactly that, they are the coaches discretion.

[RBH23]

No offense here but the #'s aren't deciding this game, Burg isn't going to wear Valley out and that's what'll decide the game. Burg is just simply better than Valley across the board should be a running clock in the 2nd half. I hope they can keep plugging away as it will be a tough year if the coach can keep them strong moving forward hopefully the results will payoff. You are correct in that something should be done in the SOC but it's not 3 divisions not with the current setup, only way you pull that off is if the SOC and OVC combine which I do believe is the answer.

#'s is everything! What is the State CB #'s for Burg? For Valley? Numbers decide a lot. Valley will play hard, and be well prepared, but balance the CB #'s/ and division sizes.

#'s is everything? It would if talent level is equal and you're saying one team simply wore down another. What's the numbers for Portsmouth, Piketon, a DVI Coal Grove team? See numbers aren't everything if you've got the horses to lineup and play a larger team you will compete just Valley isn't there right now no knock on them at all. It's just to say numbers are deciding this game seems a bit strange because you're making it sound like if it wasn't for Burg having more kids that Valley would be right there with them and that's not the case this year.

CB difference between Valley and Burg is 9 to 19; not a massive difference. But the total number of players? Burg has double, around 70 versus 35. And that does have an impact. It’s no coincidence that the school with the most players in the SOC (Burg) also has a disproportionate number of SOC titles.

It’s also no coincidence that the teams who win state titles in D5, D6, and D7 often have numbers similar to Burg.

[ValleyStrong]

#'s is everything! What is the State CB #'s for Burg? For Valley? Numbers decide a lot. Valley will play hard, and be well prepared, but balance the CB #'s/ and division sizes.

#'s is everything? It would if talent level is equal and you're saying one team simply wore down another. What's the numbers for Portsmouth, Piketon, a DVI Coal Grove team? See numbers aren't everything if you've got the horses to lineup and play a larger team you will compete just Valley isn't there right now no knock on them at all. It's just to say numbers are deciding this game seems a bit strange because you're making it sound like if it wasn't for Burg having more kids that Valley would be right there with them and that's not the case this year.

CB difference between Valley and Burg is 9 to 19; not a massive difference. But the total number of players? Burg has double, around 70 versus 35. And that does have an impact. It’s no coincidence that the school with the most players in the SOC (Burg) also has a disproportionate number of SOC titles.

It’s also no coincidence that the teams who win state titles in D5, D6, and D7 often have numbers similar to Burg.

You have to add those #'s to total # of boys in HS. Valley has a total including CB of 131 boys, Burg Waverly, etc have quite a few more boys in the school, that is why the state has Valley in a smaller division then these schools. So Total # of players or available boys in the school definitely decides or at least heavily factors in games.

[purplegold]

#'s is everything? It would if talent level is equal and you're saying one team simply wore down another. What's the numbers for Portsmouth, Piketon, a DVI Coal Grove team? See numbers aren't everything if you've got the horses to lineup and play a larger team you will compete just Valley isn't there right now no knock on them at all. It's just to say numbers are deciding this game seems a bit strange because you're making it sound like if it wasn't for Burg having more kids that Valley would be right there with them and that's not the case this year.

CB difference between Valley and Burg is 9 to 19; not a massive difference. But the total number of players? Burg has double, around 70 versus 35. And that does have an impact. It’s no coincidence that the school with the most players in the SOC (Burg) also has a disproportionate number of SOC titles.

It’s also no coincidence that the teams who win state titles in D5, D6, and D7 often have numbers similar to Burg.

You have to add those #'s to total # of boys in HS. Valley has a total including CB of 131 boys, Burg Waverly, etc have quite a few more boys in the school, that is why the state has Valley in a smaller division then these schools. So Total # of players or available boys in the school definitely decides or at least heavily factors in games.

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

[transplant]

They have 17 8th graders and 10 7th graders playing this year. The 6th and 4th grade groups are probably the bigger groups number wise, but not sure exactly how many kids they have. I can think of 1 athlete that only plays basketball, not sure he ever played football? The one you are thinking that could be starting QB is a great athlete that plays basketball and baseball. I do not know why he stopped playing football. There are definitely some athletes from the soccer team that would help the football team, but not sure all of them have even played football before? I know some have and some are rumored to play next year. I'm not sure what the answer is to get more of them to play football, maybe they just don't want to play, or some have probably never even tried it? To me, if we want all of our kids to play as many sports as they can and have the best chance to win, we have to start at an early age to encourage and make it easier to play both, so that way athletes don't have to choose to play one sport or the other. Also, another "group" of kids that need to be encouraged to participate more are the kids in the "bottoms area." I bet only a handful of kids, if that, from that area even play any sports at all. I'm not sure if it the cost of playing or what is keeping them from participating, but someone needs to encourage them to play and try to get numbers back up.

[SiderBlood]

CB difference between Valley and Burg is 9 to 19; not a massive difference. But the total number of players? Burg has double, around 70 versus 35. And that does have an impact. It’s no coincidence that the school with the most players in the SOC (Burg) also has a disproportionate number of SOC titles.

It’s also no coincidence that the teams who win state titles in D5, D6, and D7 often have numbers similar to Burg.

You have to add those #'s to total # of boys in HS. Valley has a total including CB of 131 boys, Burg Waverly, etc have quite a few more boys in the school, that is why the state has Valley in a smaller division then these schools. So Total # of players or available boys in the school definitely decides or at least heavily factors in games.

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

It’s not just at Valley. I think overall the general consensus is that numbers are down in almost every place. Not everywhere (Burg , Ironton).

I think one reason is if you get a kid or two from your school that really has an interest in football. And let’s say he’s a good player. It’s the new normal to want to pack up and go to these power houses. I don’t think it’s always beneficial to these kids but that’s already a dead discussion. so we will use Ironton as the best example. They are gaining numbers while everyone else is losing them. That starts a chain reaction of — well there went our best player, and friend, and what is the point of practicing everyday, all summer long, just to go out there and lose? And the ripple effect just goes on down the line. I don’t think this is the biggest factor at all affecting numbers. But i have seen its effect and it’s worth thinking about. This also isn’t a knock on Ironton. I’m just saying the monopoly going on is effecting overal competitiveness in our region.

And I think we are adjusting to a new generation. I hate it, but it’s the truth. Of course I’m generalizing here with all this. But kids are different. Life is different. It was starting to change but after Covid , the way the world operated changed forever. And these kids were right in the middle of adolescence when these changes happened. Right when they are learning themselves. Life became virtual and isolated. Football , sports, and everything were not the same. Now that doesn’t matter to the kids who love the game. But what it did do was take the kids that was on the team, but didn’t really care one way or the other. And i don’t think people understand how many kids are on a team just because it was kind of the social norm and something to do. Those type of kids who weren’t fully invested then, don’t feel as inclined to play now. And that is effecting numbers. Just some opinions I have thought about.

T

[transplant]

Good thoughts siderblood. How many schools have in house youth leagues? Do most? Or do some schools have only 1 youth team and travel? Valley plays against valley kids, then usually plays one game against NW or sometimes Minford i think at the end of the season.

[Dan-The-Man]

I’ve been a vocal supporter of this staff and program because this season has been coming for a long time. The senior class was never deep in any sport, and that’s been the case in all sports not just football. I think Copley will be the only senior on the baseball field. The junior class has some nice players but there’s not many of them either, this has also been a thing for many years. If all of the 8th graders play next year that gives Valley a roster of 45 or so, if they all stick with it. Looking back, I don’t remember the last time Valley had more than 40 kids. Has to be close to 6-7 years. If those numbers hold then I’d assume they will be able to play JV again. Having talked to Nolan, I know that’s a huge priority for him. But you have a lot of kids from different areas, the “bottoms” included in that. I see multiple kids playing football and soccer. I know Valley started a powerlifting team last year and have heard plans on them growing that. I have boys in the pipeline and understand that this is going to take a year or two. As mentioned above, it’s not easy when you have kids seeing or talking transfer because of those big programs. But this Valley staff is smart and energetic and seem committed to turning this around. This was a job that no big names coach wanted. One of the final guys is on staff and another according to rumors and other threads has been trying to get out of games at Oak Hill. I’ll keep plugging for these guys because I think it helps things long term. Darren went through tough times at the beginning and had a few rough years along the way, including a 1-9 right after a lot of playoff runs. I’ll keep saying it, sometimes you don’t have the talent but I think there’s talent here it’s just not ready for varsity.

[ohioripper]

Valley football since 2016:
2016... 1-9 (1-3)
2017... 3-6 (0-4) not sure on this
2018... 4-6 (1-3)
2019... 5-5 (1-4)
2020... 4-5 (1-4)
2021... 4-7 (1-4)
2022... 3-8 (1-4)

That's a .338 winning % overall and .188 in conference
SOC2 (6 wins 3 vs Minford, 2 vs Oak Hill, 1 vs West)

[wobycat]

Burg is a unique situation, they can get kids from neighboring districts just because of the proximity of the school. Sometimes the school is closer than the district of the student should be in. I think that helps burgs numbers. Before open enrollment, burg was pretty small.

[SiderBlood]

Burg is a unique situation, they can get kids from neighboring districts just because of the proximity of the school. Sometimes the school is closer than the district of the student should be in. I think that helps burgs numbers. Before open enrollment, burg was pretty small.

I don’t disagree with this. Neighboring Webster doesn’t have football. Most people are going to send their kid to Burg over green or East. And then they also pickup the leftovers from Minford.

If you think about scioto county split right down the middle by the River , there is only 2 school districts on the west side of the river. Nile township is huge, and all of northwest’s townships take up the entire space. So we are more limited to overflow from the largely rural and isolated populations.

[RBH23]

CB difference between Valley and Burg is 9 to 19; not a massive difference. But the total number of players? Burg has double, around 70 versus 35. And that does have an impact. It’s no coincidence that the school with the most players in the SOC (Burg) also has a disproportionate number of SOC titles.

It’s also no coincidence that the teams who win state titles in D5, D6, and D7 often have numbers similar to Burg.

You have to add those #'s to total # of boys in HS. Valley has a total including CB of 131 boys, Burg Waverly, etc have quite a few more boys in the school, that is why the state has Valley in a smaller division then these schools. So Total # of players or available boys in the school definitely decides or at least heavily factors in games.

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

Well said. Those low numbers create all kinds of issues and deficiencies within a program: no freshman team, no JV, limits in practice, etc.

Hard for many on here to imagine, but when I played freshman ball, Northwest, Valley, West, Waverly, and Minford all had freshman teams!

In 2023, I believe Burg is the only SOC school with a freshman team.

[Jason Vorhees]

No offense here but the #'s aren't deciding this game, Burg isn't going to wear Valley out and that's what'll decide the game. Burg is just simply better than Valley across the board should be a running clock in the 2nd half. I hope they can keep plugging away as it will be a tough year if the coach can keep them strong moving forward hopefully the results will payoff. You are correct in that something should be done in the SOC but it's not 3 divisions not with the current setup, only way you pull that off is if the SOC and OVC combine which I do believe is the answer.

I think if you added 2 OVC Schools, it’s doable: Rock Hill and Fairland.

SOC3
Burg
Waverly
West
Minford
Fairland

SOC2
Valley
Rock Hill
Oak Hill
Northwest
Symmes Valley

SOC1
South Gallia
Notre Dame
Sciotoville
Green
Eastern Pike

4 Conference games, 6 non-conference games. Leaves room for scheduling, and has a pretty competitive balance.

Those aren't bad divisions at all but I do think you start running into a problem when teams are trying to find 6 non-conference games though. Means conference games would be weeks 7-8-9-10 there abouts because of the odd number of teams you have in each division. Weeks 1-3 typically aren't difficult to find opponents but when you start looking at weeks 4-5-6 that's when just about every league is starting up league play and that's a tough ask. It's why I believe each division would need to be at least 1 team larger for sure. In this setup it would be easy for SOC1 and 2 to cross schedule each other and help fill the gaps but none of the teams from those conferences are going to signup for SOC3 schools. With your current setup I would move Rock Hill to SOC1. Add Coal Grove, Chesapeake and South Point to SOC2 I know it puts 1 added team but no big deal, then Portsmouth and Gallia would go into SOC3. That accounts for all SOC and OVC teams for football.

That’s not a bad idea, either. Only question is this and strictly for football, what would you do when Rock Hill is destroying teams in Football? Their enrollment is significantly larger than Sciotoville, Green, Notre Dame, and Eastern. They’re roughly twice as big as Symmes if I am not mistaken. I’m not saying that you’re wrong by any means but I’m curious how that would work out.

[Proud_Pirate63]

You have to add those #'s to total # of boys in HS. Valley has a total including CB of 131 boys, Burg Waverly, etc have quite a few more boys in the school, that is why the state has Valley in a smaller division then these schools. So Total # of players or available boys in the school definitely decides or at least heavily factors in games.

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

Well said. Those low numbers create all kinds of issues and deficiencies within a program: no freshman team, no JV, limits in practice, etc.

Hard for many on here to imagine, but when I played freshman ball, Northwest, Valley, West, Waverly, and Minford all had freshman teams!

In 2023, I believe Burg is the only SOC school with a freshman team.

Plus, Burg’s freshmen also dress on Friday nights. They didn’t in the past. My freshmen year, we had 22-25 kids on the team. We had our own locker room, practiced on the baseball outfield, and played our own schedule. We weren’t part of the JV/Varsity teams whatsoever. Take those 22-25 kids off the sidelines on Fridays and Burg’s varsity team shrinks to about 45 kids. Only on a rare occasion would a freshmen play up on Varsity. But if they did, they definitely didn’t play freshman ball.

[scott1297]

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

Well said. Those low numbers create all kinds of issues and deficiencies within a program: no freshman team, no JV, limits in practice, etc.

Hard for many on here to imagine, but when I played freshman ball, Northwest, Valley, West, Waverly, and Minford all had freshman teams!

In 2023, I believe Burg is the only SOC school with a freshman team.

Plus, Burg’s freshmen also dress on Friday nights. They didn’t in the past. My freshmen year, we had 22-25 kids on the team. We had our own locker room, practiced on the baseball outfield, and played our own schedule. We weren’t part of the JV/Varsity teams whatsoever. Take those 22-25 kids off the sidelines on Fridays and Burg’s varsity team shrinks to about 45 kids. Only on a rare occasion would a freshmen play up on Varsity. But if they did, they definitely didn’t play freshman ball.

Burgs freshman do not dress every game I know they didn't at the Jackson game this year but I think they do most of the home games and some of the away games but not every game

[RBH23]

Numbers do mean something, but also when only 1 senior plays out of the however many senior boys go to Valley, that also has an effect. To me, the question that valley has to ask itself is how do we get more boys interested in playing football. They probably average between 35 - 45 boys in a grade level. I wonder how you can't get at least 8 boys per grade level with some grades bringing even more. When I'm at games, I see a cheer section with some athletic boys cheering on the team. Some play soccer, which is fine. But how are we not getting more of those kids to play football. You have some just focusing on basketball year round, which really hurts your other programs in a school Valley's size because those year round basketball players are athletes. We have one that should be starting QB. To me, the biggest question is why are they not playing. Is it that they are just soft and do not want the physicality of football, are they too worried about getting injured because of possibly being out winter sports season.
I'm hearing the peewee numbers are up which is good. But how do we keep those kids going? Are they dropping out in jr high? There are just a lot of questions that need answered in how to keep kids playing football. I personally believe the future is bright if kids continue to keep playing football. We have enough boys to where we should field teams of 45-50. But how do we get them to play.
Side note: with low numbers comes no JV games that in turn, effects development of players.

Well said. Those low numbers create all kinds of issues and deficiencies within a program: no freshman team, no JV, limits in practice, etc.

Hard for many on here to imagine, but when I played freshman ball, Northwest, Valley, West, Waverly, and Minford all had freshman teams!

In 2023, I believe Burg is the only SOC school with a freshman team.

Plus, Burg’s freshmen also dress on Friday nights. They didn’t in the past. My freshmen year, we had 22-25 kids on the team. We had our own locker room, practiced on the baseball outfield, and played our own schedule. We weren’t part of the JV/Varsity teams whatsoever. Take those 22-25 kids off the sidelines on Fridays and Burg’s varsity team shrinks to about 45 kids. Only on a rare occasion would a freshmen play up on Varsity. But if they did, they definitely didn’t play freshman ball.

Remember those days…

I don’t recall any freshman playing varsity in those days; none of us even dressed. Although we did get into the varsity games for free.

[TomUnessa]

Well said. Those low numbers create all kinds of issues and deficiencies within a program: no freshman team, no JV, limits in practice, etc.

Hard for many on here to imagine, but when I played freshman ball, Northwest, Valley, West, Waverly, and Minford all had freshman teams!

In 2023, I believe Burg is the only SOC school with a freshman team.

Plus, Burg’s freshmen also dress on Friday nights. They didn’t in the past. My freshmen year, we had 22-25 kids on the team. We had our own locker room, practiced on the baseball outfield, and played our own schedule. We weren’t part of the JV/Varsity teams whatsoever. Take those 22-25 kids off the sidelines on Fridays and Burg’s varsity team shrinks to about 45 kids. Only on a rare occasion would a freshmen play up on Varsity. But if they did, they definitely didn’t play freshman ball.

Remember those days…

I don’t recall any freshman playing varsity in those days; none of us even dressed. Although we did get into the varsity games for free.

Lol remember those practices on the baseball outfield. Reserves played their games on Mondays while us freshmen held the blow bags for the varsity. We were sacrifices on those Mondays but I Don’t remember anyone complaining. It was just something you knew you was gonna have to do as a freshman.

[Izladoom]

I don’t like how they set the divisions up it doesn’t matter how many boys you have at the school if they don’t play sports I think they should go by how many kids actually play maybe do something like a 2 year average turnout or something but the players should not be basically punished just because the school has a bunch of boys that don’t play any sports