SOC to vote on 3 Football Divisions (Thurs.)

[bfry]

It seems some schools would like a solution of some sort.

[art_vandelay]

Just don’t see any other option short-term other than SOC schools leaving. Oak Hill to TVC needs to happen because them cancelling conference games last year was not good for anybody. It altered playoff seedings in Region 19 to some teams’ benefit, and other teams’ detriment.

Northwest seems like they’d be a good fit for the SVC, but don’t know if SVC would be interested in them. As the SOC I schools don’t want them back, I think they probably just stay put. With 16-team playoff and the right schedule, they can still make playoffs most years even with 3 losses to the 3 W’s every year.

Valley from what I hear is fine with staying put. Next few years, they look like they have the roster numbers and talent to compete with anyone in SOC II.*

[HatTrick]

Competitive Balance as I see it. I believe it would be a toss up each year in all 3 divisions.

SOC 1:
South Gallia
Wheelersburg
Symmes Valley
Sciotoville East

SOC 2:
Valley
West
Green
Oak Hill

SOC 3:
Eastern
Minford
Waverly
Notre Dame

Is there a missing sarcasm tag? I feel like Waverly is too big to be playing Eastern and Notre Dame every year

https://tenor.com/view/joke-gif-20570178

[greygoose]

I don’t know who was pushing for it but I think folks were looking for a solution to good play in the conference.

Well sounds like it was OH and NW and sorry but if that's the case that's not what the folks were looking for. They were looking for a pass to get to play lower schools so they could build back up to beating on them like OH did for all those years in SOC1 with 50 man rosters. They weren't looking for a solution to good conference play then they were good with outscoring conference teams 250-55 over the course of league play against teams with 20 man rosters. If that were the case then they need to be presenting a better argument and a solution to it, because separating into 3 divisions in SOC play in football just isn't a great solution because you're leaving a lot of teams looking for a large number of non-conference opponents. Personally I do think something needs done but it's going to come out league expansion into 3 divisions. What are you going to do put West, Burg and Waverly into 1 division and have them find 8 games?? Valley, Minford, OH, NW in another division left to find 7 games. The lower division would be just fine it's that middle to top tier range with issues.

[GoBucks1047]

I don’t know who was pushing for it but I think folks were looking for a solution to good play in the conference.

Well sounds like it was OH and NW and sorry but if that's the case that's not what the folks were looking for. They were looking for a pass to get to play lower schools so they could build back up to beating on them like OH did for all those years in SOC1 with 50 man rosters. They weren't looking for a solution to good conference play then they were good with outscoring conference teams 250-55 over the course of league play against teams with 20 man rosters. If that were the case then they need to be presenting a better argument and a solution to it, because separating into 3 divisions in SOC play in football just isn't a great solution because you're leaving a lot of teams looking for a large number of non-conference opponents. Personally I do think something needs done but it's going to come out league expansion into 3 divisions. What are you going to do put West, Burg and Waverly into 1 division and have them find 8 games?? Valley, Minford, OH, NW in another division left to find 7 games. The lower division would be just fine it's that middle to top tier range with issues.

Here's an idea, OH and NW play an independent football schedule, but within the SOC.

SOC I is East, Eastern, Green, Manchester*, Notre Dame, South Gallia, and Symmes Valley

SOC II is Burg, West, Minford, Valley, and Waverly

The teams above play round robin within division + 1 of OH or NW.

OH and NW play:
- 2 games of Burg, West, Minford, and Waverly
- 4 games of Valley, Eastern, Notre Dame, Manchester, East, Green, Symmes Valley, and South Gallia
- H2H game against each other

This gives the SOC I schools plus OH and NW a 7 game conference schedule while the SOC II schools play a 5 game conference schedule, and no issues with late season scheduling. If OH and NW want to be eligible for an SOC I title, I say let them, but they will play a tougher conference schedule compared to the SOC I schools since they are a larger school.

[MrPerfect]

Does anyone know the results of what happened at the meeting?

[art_vandelay]

I don’t know who was pushing for it but I think folks were looking for a solution to good play in the conference.

Well sounds like it was OH and NW and sorry but if that's the case that's not what the folks were looking for. They were looking for a pass to get to play lower schools so they could build back up to beating on them like OH did for all those years in SOC1 with 50 man rosters. They weren't looking for a solution to good conference play then they were good with outscoring conference teams 250-55 over the course of league play against teams with 20 man rosters. If that were the case then they need to be presenting a better argument and a solution to it, because separating into 3 divisions in SOC play in football just isn't a great solution because you're leaving a lot of teams looking for a large number of non-conference opponents. Personally I do think something needs done but it's going to come out league expansion into 3 divisions. What are you going to do put West, Burg and Waverly into 1 division and have them find 8 games?? Valley, Minford, OH, NW in another division left to find 7 games. The lower division would be just fine it's that middle to top tier range with issues.

Here's an idea, OH and NW play an independent football schedule, but within the SOC.

SOC I is East, Eastern, Green, Manchester*, Notre Dame, South Gallia, and Symmes Valley

SOC II is Burg, West, Minford, Valley, and Waverly

The teams above play round robin within division + 1 of OH or NW.

OH and NW play:
- 2 games of Burg, West, Minford, and Waverly
- 4 games of Valley, Eastern, Notre Dame, Manchester, East, Green, Symmes Valley, and South Gallia
- H2H game against each other

This gives the SOC I schools plus OH and NW a 7 game conference schedule while the SOC II schools play a 5 game conference schedule, and no issues with late season scheduling. If OH and NW want to be eligible for an SOC I title, I say let them, but they will play a tougher conference schedule compared to the SOC I schools since they are a larger school.

All that work for Oak Hill to just cancel last-second against the schools they don't want to play. I think Oak Hill probably gone now, unless the unlikely scenario of SOC letting them drop back down to SOC I. With Oak Hill being D6 now, they at least have somewhat of an argument.

Question is whether Northwest will start looking around as well? As long as they are a D5 school, SOC I is no longer an option for them. SVC or OVC only conferences that make any sense from travel and competitive standpoints.*

[TigerBob]

So many problems could be solved if OVC took in Oak Hill and Northwest while SOC took in Ironton and Portsmouth.

[Jeaux Burreaux]

I understand Valley has good runs but then being D VI and borderline D VII most years isn’t a good fit along with West Waverly and Burg

[GoIrish]

Does anyone know the results of what happened at the meeting?

Officially voted down.

[Seofanatic]

So many problems could be solved if OVC took in Oak Hill and Northwest while SOC took in Ironton and Portsmouth.

I couldn't imagine Northwest would be interested in moving to the OVC

[greygoose]

Well sounds like it was OH and NW and sorry but if that's the case that's not what the folks were looking for. They were looking for a pass to get to play lower schools so they could build back up to beating on them like OH did for all those years in SOC1 with 50 man rosters. They weren't looking for a solution to good conference play then they were good with outscoring conference teams 250-55 over the course of league play against teams with 20 man rosters. If that were the case then they need to be presenting a better argument and a solution to it, because separating into 3 divisions in SOC play in football just isn't a great solution because you're leaving a lot of teams looking for a large number of non-conference opponents. Personally I do think something needs done but it's going to come out league expansion into 3 divisions. What are you going to do put West, Burg and Waverly into 1 division and have them find 8 games?? Valley, Minford, OH, NW in another division left to find 7 games. The lower division would be just fine it's that middle to top tier range with issues.

Here's an idea, OH and NW play an independent football schedule, but within the SOC.

SOC I is East, Eastern, Green, Manchester*, Notre Dame, South Gallia, and Symmes Valley

SOC II is Burg, West, Minford, Valley, and Waverly

The teams above play round robin within division + 1 of OH or NW.

OH and NW play:
- 2 games of Burg, West, Minford, and Waverly
- 4 games of Valley, Eastern, Notre Dame, Manchester, East, Green, Symmes Valley, and South Gallia
- H2H game against each other

This gives the SOC I schools plus OH and NW a 7 game conference schedule while the SOC II schools play a 5 game conference schedule, and no issues with late season scheduling. If OH and NW want to be eligible for an SOC I title, I say let them, but they will play a tougher conference schedule compared to the SOC I schools since they are a larger school.

All that work for Oak Hill to just cancel last-second against the schools they don't want to play. I think Oak Hill probably gone now, unless the unlikely scenario of SOC letting them drop back down to SOC I. With Oak Hill being D6 now, they at least have somewhat of an argument.

Question is whether Northwest will start looking around as well? As long as they are a D5 school, SOC I is no longer an option for them. SVC or OVC only conferences that make any sense from travel and competitive standpoints.*

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that the SOC1 schools will not accept OH otherwise this vote would’ve been different. Back when OH was in SOC 1 they had 50 man rosters and obliterated all SOC1 schools out scoring them by an average of around 45 to 8 ppg in league play. Those teams remember that and realize should OH go back down they’ll build right back up. They didn’t lose numbers because kids just didn’t want to play anymore they lost numbers because of going SOC2 plain and simple. Them being a big DVI means nothing when you’ve got mainly all small DVII schools.

[FIDO]

Portsmouth
Burg
Waverly
West
Ironton
Minford

If you can't beat the best in the local area you don't deserve an invite to the dance anyway.

[jujubean]

Never quite understood the SOC 1 and 2 being considered 1 conference. SOC 1 should take care of their affairs and SOC2 theirs. Also, non football schools shouldn't even have a say what conferences football school play football in.

Besides, rumor has that the vote was shadier than 2020's Mail in and drop box votes. What the hell is a secret vote all about? Are the powers that be really that spineless?

I've said it before though, if OH and NW don't want to play with the big boys, find another conference. They could already have 2 charter members.

[jujubean]

Portsmouth
Burg
Waverly
West
Ironton
Minford

If you can't beat the best in the local area you don't deserve an invite to the dance anyway.

Then why are you inviting Minford?

[Dundas]

Here's an idea, OH and NW play an independent football schedule, but within the SOC.

SOC I is East, Eastern, Green, Manchester*, Notre Dame, South Gallia, and Symmes Valley

SOC II is Burg, West, Minford, Valley, and Waverly

The teams above play round robin within division + 1 of OH or NW.

OH and NW play:
- 2 games of Burg, West, Minford, and Waverly
- 4 games of Valley, Eastern, Notre Dame, Manchester, East, Green, Symmes Valley, and South Gallia
- H2H game against each other

This gives the SOC I schools plus OH and NW a 7 game conference schedule while the SOC II schools play a 5 game conference schedule, and no issues with late season scheduling. If OH and NW want to be eligible for an SOC I title, I say let them, but they will play a tougher conference schedule compared to the SOC I schools since they are a larger school.

All that work for Oak Hill to just cancel last-second against the schools they don't want to play. I think Oak Hill probably gone now, unless the unlikely scenario of SOC letting them drop back down to SOC I. With Oak Hill being D6 now, they at least have somewhat of an argument.

Question is whether Northwest will start looking around as well? As long as they are a D5 school, SOC I is no longer an option for them. SVC or OVC only conferences that make any sense from travel and competitive standpoints.*

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that the SOC1 schools will not accept OH otherwise this vote would’ve been different. Back when OH was in SOC 1 they had 50 man rosters and obliterated all SOC1 schools out scoring them by an average of around 45 to 8 ppg in league play. Those teams remember that and realize should OH go back down they’ll build right back up. They didn’t lose numbers because kids just didn’t want to play anymore they lost numbers because of going SOC2 plain and simple. Them being a big DVI means nothing when you’ve got mainly all small DVII schools.

Exactly. Which is why the TVC is the best fit for Oak Hill. They border Wellston and River Valley districts. They are within an hour of every school minus NY (1:10) up 32/33. The TVC compared to the SOC from top to bottom isn’t as strong as the big school division. Just look at the past year. OH lost to Wellston in a very close game. That’s a Wellston team that beat Alexander, RV and Meigs in the TVC Ohio this year. OH could have potentially won 3 conference games and this may have been the worst OH team in 30 years. Are they going to win the TVC Ohio year in and year out? No. But will they win games? Absolutely. It just makes to much sense. The Ohio has an odd number of teams, OH would fix the scheduling issue right away by filling the non conference week for each current member.

Hypothetical Schedule for Oak Hill D6

Rock Hill
Northwest
Southeastern
Wellston D5
Nelsonville York D6
Meigs D5
Vinton County D4
Athens D3
Alexander D5
River Valley D5

RV would be the closest TVC team and would make for a nice week 10 rivalry game imo.

[FIDO]

Portsmouth
Burg
Waverly
West
Ironton
Minford

If you can't beat the best in the local area you don't deserve an invite to the dance anyway.

Then why are you inviting Minford?

Isn't Minford in DV? Ironton is currently not in a league and Portsmouth may or may not be persuaded to join the SOC big league.

It isn't going to happen anyway but Minford doesn't deserve special treatment.

[greygoose]

All that work for Oak Hill to just cancel last-second against the schools they don't want to play. I think Oak Hill probably gone now, unless the unlikely scenario of SOC letting them drop back down to SOC I. With Oak Hill being D6 now, they at least have somewhat of an argument.

Question is whether Northwest will start looking around as well? As long as they are a D5 school, SOC I is no longer an option for them. SVC or OVC only conferences that make any sense from travel and competitive standpoints.*

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that the SOC1 schools will not accept OH otherwise this vote would’ve been different. Back when OH was in SOC 1 they had 50 man rosters and obliterated all SOC1 schools out scoring them by an average of around 45 to 8 ppg in league play. Those teams remember that and realize should OH go back down they’ll build right back up. They didn’t lose numbers because kids just didn’t want to play anymore they lost numbers because of going SOC2 plain and simple. Them being a big DVI means nothing when you’ve got mainly all small DVII schools.

Exactly. Which is why the TVC is the best fit for Oak Hill. They border Wellston and River Valley districts. They are within an hour of every school minus NY (1:10) up 32/33. The TVC compared to the SOC from top to bottom isn’t as strong as the big school division. Just look at the past year. OH lost to Wellston in a very close game. That’s a Wellston team that beat Alexander, RV and Meigs in the TVC Ohio this year. OH could have potentially won 3 conference games and this may have been the worst OH team in 30 years. Are they going to win the TVC Ohio year in and year out? No. But will they win games? Absolutely. It just makes to much sense. The Ohio has an odd number of teams, OH would fix the scheduling issue right away by filling the non conference week for each current member.

Hypothetical Schedule for Oak Hill D6

Rock Hill
Northwest
Southeastern
Wellston D5
Nelsonville York D6
Meigs D5
Vinton County D4
Athens D3
Alexander D5
River Valley D5

RV would be the closest TVC team and would make for a nice week 10 rivalry game imo.

Been with you the entire time on this one, when you look at that schedule there's theoretically 5 games you could see OH being able to pull off and another 1 or 2 where they might compete in. Oak Hill has played Wellston last couple years winning one and losing a close one 12-9 this season, Meigs, Alexander and River Valley are 3 teams they should be able to compete with in conference as well. Outside of NY, VC and Athens (no idea how a D3 school is in this division) they would be much more competitive. Drives are mainly all highway, I just don't understand if there's more to it then what any of us realize or not but you would think for OH this would be a no brainer to look into. Maybe they have and it wasn't going to go anywhere.

[Dundas]

I will go out on a limb and guarantee that the SOC1 schools will not accept OH otherwise this vote would’ve been different. Back when OH was in SOC 1 they had 50 man rosters and obliterated all SOC1 schools out scoring them by an average of around 45 to 8 ppg in league play. Those teams remember that and realize should OH go back down they’ll build right back up. They didn’t lose numbers because kids just didn’t want to play anymore they lost numbers because of going SOC2 plain and simple. Them being a big DVI means nothing when you’ve got mainly all small DVII schools.

Exactly. Which is why the TVC is the best fit for Oak Hill. They border Wellston and River Valley districts. They are within an hour of every school minus NY (1:10) up 32/33. The TVC compared to the SOC from top to bottom isn’t as strong as the big school division. Just look at the past year. OH lost to Wellston in a very close game. That’s a Wellston team that beat Alexander, RV and Meigs in the TVC Ohio this year. OH could have potentially won 3 conference games and this may have been the worst OH team in 30 years. Are they going to win the TVC Ohio year in and year out? No. But will they win games? Absolutely. It just makes to much sense. The Ohio has an odd number of teams, OH would fix the scheduling issue right away by filling the non conference week for each current member.

Hypothetical Schedule for Oak Hill D6

Rock Hill
Northwest
Southeastern
Wellston D5
Nelsonville York D6
Meigs D5
Vinton County D4
Athens D3
Alexander D5
River Valley D5

RV would be the closest TVC team and would make for a nice week 10 rivalry game imo.

Been with you the entire time on this one, when you look at that schedule there's theoretically 5 games you could see OH being able to pull off and another 1 or 2 where they might compete in. Oak Hill has played Wellston last couple years winning one and losing a close one 12-9 this season, Meigs, Alexander and River Valley are 3 teams they should be able to compete with in conference as well. Outside of NY, VC and Athens (no idea how a D3 school is in this division) they would be much more competitive. Drives are mainly all highway, I just don't understand if there's more to it then what any of us realize or not but you would think for OH this would be a no brainer to look into. Maybe they have and it wasn't going to go anywhere.

It is my understanding that when the SVAC disbanded in the early 90’s, Oak Hill was not taken into the TVC. Eastern and southern were. OH was left to find something else at that point. Terrible decision by the TVC imo. A lot of things have changed since then. We’ll see what OH decides to do but I’d almost guarantee that it Oak Hill petitioned the TVC for membership (Ohio) they would get the votes.

Close in proximity to most schools, turf field for football, decent size gymnasium.

[Oldtimer55]

Portsmouth
Burg
Waverly
West
Ironton
Minford

If you can't beat the best in the local area you don't deserve an invite to the dance anyway.

Then why are you inviting Minford?

Isn't Minford in DV? Ironton is currently not in a league and Portsmouth may or may not be persuaded to join the SOC big league.

It isn't going to happen anyway but Minford doesn't deserve special treatment.

Minford wants no part of that scenario even on a good day!