Burg at McNichols

[Tjhtygeverve]

BURG WILL BE FINE.

They tend to build momentum, i hopeso anyway.
I just cannot wish ill will to such a great rival team as an IronTon Fan

Shocked more at BLOWOUT @‘Jacskson with several starters still not playing & im not sure why.

Good luck SEOFB

[RBH23]

You just explained everything I have been thinking all along here. Plus I have been taught a class in genetics , thank you for spelling out how deep all this runs in a football teams makeup. So now what are the solutions that your group will consider needs to happen with all these genetically gifted athletes going forward. I’m confident now that things will work out , especially with eye on the Coaching decisions. I appreciate your effort and break down of situation. Good Luck to the Pirates! For your all sakes I hope the Pirates go 9-1 this year.

“I have been taught a class in genetics.” Ugh!!

What should Burg do? It’s actually quite simple: benchmark schools that have won consistently in Ohio despite not having the best athletes. Two prime examples: Kirtland and Hilliard Davidson under Brian White.

Kirtland dominates despite rarely producing a D1 athlete. They put a running clock on Ironton in the state title even though Ironton had a roster full of D1 players and Kirtland had zero.

Brian White won two state titles and 5 regional titles at HD despite being outmanned by the big catholic schools and the other D1 powerhouse public schools. Watching his teams play was like watching Ed Miller teams, which makes sense given White played for Ed. Definitely bring him to town just to consult on the best way forward for Burg football.

This is not rocket science, it’s high school football. Burg has enough talent as is evident in all sports they compete. But the current scheme does not fit with their talent and needs adjusted.

If it is as simple as just do what Kirtland does because they do what Ed Miller use to do..... then why did Ed only win 1 state championship at Burg. According to you if they run power football and have a playbook that could fit on 1 page, they will win the state all the time. That is what Ed did and won one time (same as this group of coaches who implemented a different style)

It is small school football you can not have a certain offense or defense set in stone and say we do this and this only. You have to adjust with the style of football in the current era and also your players. Burg made a change long ago because of the style of athletes they had coming. Now, I agree with you in the fact that style does not match this team.

The power run game the Burg ran in the 80s and 90s fit most of their teams. But did it always fit? Did they have success, but maybe could of done better? Could you imagine Jonathan Eaton running the spread offense with a D1 tackle protecting him? He would of been unreal.

Offenses need to be balanced these days. If you can only run the ball then you will eventually run into a defense that can and will stop you. That happened to a bunch of very good Burg teams in the 90s. In 2017 Burg was balanced, if they could of only threw and had no run game (which was the case in some of the prior years to 2017) they would of not beat Columbus Academy because of the athletes they had. That team did not have one dominant style but was able to use multiple personnels and figure out a way to beat each team.

So in the end I do not disagree with you... I just do not like the argument that says well Ed did it and this how we use to do it. Because that way only won 1 State championship as well. I can think of at least 4 teams in the 80s and 90s where I feel like they were legitimately the best team in the state but didnt get it done.

That year they also benefited from playing 3 straight teams from Regional Finals and on that could only run the football and run defense was the strength of that defense. Not that the secondary was bad by any means, but imagine if Eastwood, Johnstown, or Madison could be balanced and threw the ball enough to keep you honest. It would of been a much tougher defensive assignment.

Ed took over a 5-5 Burg team, and then proceeded to go 81-7-2 over the next 9 seasons, including five undefeated seasons. But back then, making the playoffs was nearly impossible. Only 3 divisions with 8 teams per division in the playoffs; so only 24 total teams made it in the entire state!!

Burg’s first playoff appearance was a 14-0 loss to the eventual state champion. Then missed the playoffs for a few more years before getting back and running into CAPE, again the EVENTUAL state champion.

Burg had three straight years with classic battles against Versailles with the third resulting in a state title. Ed coached two more years with his last year being a loss in the state semifinals by a score 28-14.

So the simple answer is Burg only made the playoffs a handful of times back then because just making the playoffs was a massive accomplishment; not like today where 448 teams make the playoffs!!


As for style, the reason I preach Ed’s style is because it works! Kirtland had never won a playoff game before their new coach took over. He brought an old school style of football to Kirtland with tremendous success.

But the best example of this is Hilliard Davidson under Brian White, a guy who played for Ed. He used the exact same style of offense to lead HD to 6 regional titles and 2 state titles in D1. He used this old school style to beat and compete against the best schools in Ohio!!!
Now after White retired, HD took your “advise” and modernized their offense. The results? A complete disaster with the team being no longer competitive. They gave up what made them successful to “adjust to the current era.”


But your post proved my point with your reference to the Columbus Academy game. As you said, without a run game, Burg would not have beaten Columbus Academy due to CA’s athletes. That’s 100% correct!!! And that is why Burg needs to be a run first team with the QB under center! This is also why Kirtland is a run first/heavy team. Just like Burg, Kirtland does not have the athletes to run the spread. And without the athletes, the spread is dead in the water when attempted against teams that do have athletes.

[RBH23]

IMO, Burg has played 2 games uninspired, with concrete blocks on their feet at the LOS. At best, a 6 win season, then week 11. I hope I'm wrong.

And the O play calling came through again! First interception gave McNich a short field resulting in 6 points. Second int was returned for a TD.

The one drive Burg showed life, the OC moved away from what worked when Burg got close to the end zone. Ugh!

Oh, and let’s not forget going for it on 4&10 from the 40

[RBH23]

Mc Nick have recruits ?

Yes. The announcers for mcnick alluded to some new kids added to the roster. Not sure how many

McNick’s QB is really good and a three year starter. He tore Burg up.

But of course the Burg O was once against a dumpster fire. At this point, the OC needs to dramatically change the game plan, or be fired for abuse because he’s putting the Burg QB in no win situations that are impacting his confidence. No defense for this!!

[fbnut]

I can’t watch them anymore but was wondering how many burg kids were laying on the field after the whistle to draw attention to themself?

[fbnut]

“I have been taught a class in genetics.” Ugh!!

What should Burg do? It’s actually quite simple: benchmark schools that have won consistently in Ohio despite not having the best athletes. Two prime examples: Kirtland and Hilliard Davidson under Brian White.

Kirtland dominates despite rarely producing a D1 athlete. They put a running clock on Ironton in the state title even though Ironton had a roster full of D1 players and Kirtland had zero.

Brian White won two state titles and 5 regional titles at HD despite being outmanned by the big catholic schools and the other D1 powerhouse public schools. Watching his teams play was like watching Ed Miller teams, which makes sense given White played for Ed. Definitely bring him to town just to consult on the best way forward for Burg football.

This is not rocket science, it’s high school football. Burg has enough talent as is evident in all sports they compete. But the current scheme does not fit with their talent and needs adjusted.

If it is as simple as just do what Kirtland does because they do what Ed Miller use to do..... then why did Ed only win 1 state championship at Burg. According to you if they run power football and have a playbook that could fit on 1 page, they will win the state all the time. That is what Ed did and won one time (same as this group of coaches who implemented a different style)

It is small school football you can not have a certain offense or defense set in stone and say we do this and this only. You have to adjust with the style of football in the current era and also your players. Burg made a change long ago because of the style of athletes they had coming. Now, I agree with you in the fact that style does not match this team.

The power run game the Burg ran in the 80s and 90s fit most of their teams. But did it always fit? Did they have success, but maybe could of done better? Could you imagine Jonathan Eaton running the spread offense with a D1 tackle protecting him? He would of been unreal.

Offenses need to be balanced these days. If you can only run the ball then you will eventually run into a defense that can and will stop you. That happened to a bunch of very good Burg teams in the 90s. In 2017 Burg was balanced, if they could of only threw and had no run game (which was the case in some of the prior years to 2017) they would of not beat Columbus Academy because of the athletes they had. That team did not have one dominant style but was able to use multiple personnels and figure out a way to beat each team.

So in the end I do not disagree with you... I just do not like the argument that says well Ed did it and this how we use to do it. Because that way only won 1 State championship as well. I can think of at least 4 teams in the 80s and 90s where I feel like they were legitimately the best team in the state but didnt get it done.

That year they also benefited from playing 3 straight teams from Regional Finals and on that could only run the football and run defense was the strength of that defense. Not that the secondary was bad by any means, but imagine if Eastwood, Johnstown, or Madison could be balanced and threw the ball enough to keep you honest. It would of been a much tougher defensive assignment.

Ed took over a 5-5 Burg team, and then proceeded to go 81-7-2 over the next 9 seasons, including five undefeated seasons. But back then, making the playoffs was nearly impossible. Only 3 divisions with 8 teams per division in the playoffs; so only 24 total teams made it in the entire state!!

Burg’s first playoff appearance was a 14-0 loss to the eventual state champion. Then missed the playoffs for a few more years before getting back and running into CAPE, again the EVENTUAL state champion.

Burg had three straight years with classic battles against Versailles with the third resulting in a state title. Ed coached two more years with his last year being a loss in the state semifinals by a score 28-14.

So the simple answer is Burg only made the playoffs a handful of times back then because just making the playoffs was a massive accomplishment; not like today where 448 teams make the playoffs!!


As for style, the reason I preach Ed’s style is because it works! Kirtland had never won a playoff game before their new coach took over. He brought an old school style of football to Kirtland with tremendous success.

But the best example of this is Hilliard Davidson under Brian White, a guy who played for Ed. He used the exact same style of offense to lead HD to 6 regional titles and 2 state titles in D1. He used this old school style to beat and compete against the best schools in Ohio!!!
Now after White retired, HD took your “advise” and modernized their offense. The results? A complete disaster with the team being no longer competitive. They gave up what made them successful to “adjust to the current era.”


But your post proved my point with your reference to the Columbus Academy game. As you said, without a run game, Burg would not have beaten Columbus Academy due to CA’s athletes. That’s 100% correct!!! And that is why Burg needs to be a run first team with the QB under center! This is also why Kirtland is a run first/heavy team. Just like Burg, Kirtland does not have the athletes to run the spread. And without the athletes, the spread is dead in the water when attempted against teams that do have athletes.

Coach white beat teams consistently that talent wise should have been blowing out his davidson teams

[fbnut]

IMO, Burg has played 2 games uninspired, with concrete blocks on their feet at the LOS. At best, a 6 win season, then week 11. I hope I'm wrong.

You just described every burg season since holden graduated

[Oldtimer55]

“I have been taught a class in genetics.” Ugh!!

What should Burg do? It’s actually quite simple: benchmark schools that have won consistently in Ohio despite not having the best athletes. Two prime examples: Kirtland and Hilliard Davidson under Brian White.

Kirtland dominates despite rarely producing a D1 athlete. They put a running clock on Ironton in the state title even though Ironton had a roster full of D1 players and Kirtland had zero.

Brian White won two state titles and 5 regional titles at HD despite being outmanned by the big catholic schools and the other D1 powerhouse public schools. Watching his teams play was like watching Ed Miller teams, which makes sense given White played for Ed. Definitely bring him to town just to consult on the best way forward for Burg football.

This is not rocket science, it’s high school football. Burg has enough talent as is evident in all sports they compete. But the current scheme does not fit with their talent and needs adjusted.

If it is as simple as just do what Kirtland does because they do what Ed Miller use to do..... then why did Ed only win 1 state championship at Burg. According to you if they run power football and have a playbook that could fit on 1 page, they will win the state all the time. That is what Ed did and won one time (same as this group of coaches who implemented a different style)

It is small school football you can not have a certain offense or defense set in stone and say we do this and this only. You have to adjust with the style of football in the current era and also your players. Burg made a change long ago because of the style of athletes they had coming. Now, I agree with you in the fact that style does not match this team.

The power run game the Burg ran in the 80s and 90s fit most of their teams. But did it always fit? Did they have success, but maybe could of done better? Could you imagine Jonathan Eaton running the spread offense with a D1 tackle protecting him? He would of been unreal.

Offenses need to be balanced these days. If you can only run the ball then you will eventually run into a defense that can and will stop you. That happened to a bunch of very good Burg teams in the 90s. In 2017 Burg was balanced, if they could of only threw and had no run game (which was the case in some of the prior years to 2017) they would of not beat Columbus Academy because of the athletes they had. That team did not have one dominant style but was able to use multiple personnels and figure out a way to beat each team.

So in the end I do not disagree with you... I just do not like the argument that says well Ed did it and this how we use to do it. Because that way only won 1 State championship as well. I can think of at least 4 teams in the 80s and 90s where I feel like they were legitimately the best team in the state but didnt get it done.

That year they also benefited from playing 3 straight teams from Regional Finals and on that could only run the football and run defense was the strength of that defense. Not that the secondary was bad by any means, but imagine if Eastwood, Johnstown, or Madison could be balanced and threw the ball enough to keep you honest. It would of been a much tougher defensive assignment.

Ed took over a 5-5 Burg team, and then proceeded to go 81-7-2 over the next 9 seasons, including five undefeated seasons. But back then, making the playoffs was nearly impossible. Only 3 divisions with 8 teams per division in the playoffs; so only 24 total teams made it in the entire state!!

Burg’s first playoff appearance was a 14-0 loss to the eventual state champion. Then missed the playoffs for a few more years before getting back and running into CAPE, again the EVENTUAL state champion.

Burg had three straight years with classic battles against Versailles with the third resulting in a state title. Ed coached two more years with his last year being a loss in the state semifinals by a score 28-14.

So the simple answer is Burg only made the playoffs a handful of times back then because just making the playoffs was a massive accomplishment; not like today where 448 teams make the playoffs!!


As for style, the reason I preach Ed’s style is because it works! Kirtland had never won a playoff game before their new coach took over. He brought an old school style of football to Kirtland with tremendous success.

But the best example of this is Hilliard Davidson under Brian White, a guy who played for Ed. He used the exact same style of offense to lead HD to 6 regional titles and 2 state titles in D1. He used this old school style to beat and compete against the best schools in Ohio!!!
Now after White retired, HD took your “advise” and modernized their offense. The results? A complete disaster with the team being no longer competitive. They gave up what made them successful to “adjust to the current era.”


But your post proved my point with your reference to the Columbus Academy game. As you said, without a run game, Burg would not have beaten Columbus Academy due to CA’s athletes. That’s 100% correct!!! And that is why Burg needs to be a run first team with the QB under center! This is also why Kirtland is a run first/heavy team. Just like Burg, Kirtland does not have the athletes to run the spread. And without the athletes, the spread is dead in the water when attempted against teams that do have athletes.

In the 1970’s, only 4 teams per the 3 Divisions qualified for the playoffs for a total of 12 ! So the first playoff game was the state semifinals followed by the state championship the next week which is the path Ironton took in 1979 when they won it all. When Burg qualified for the first time in 1981 it has expanded to 2 teams per region and 8 per division

[fbnut]

IMO, Burg has played 2 games uninspired, with concrete blocks on their feet at the LOS. At best, a 6 win season, then week 11. I hope I'm wrong.

And the O play calling came through again! First interception gave McNich a short field resulting in 6 points. Second int was returned for a TD.

The one drive Burg showed life, the OC moved away from what worked when Burg got close to the end zone. Ugh!

Oh, and let’s not forget going for it on 4&10 from the 40

So you’re saying after scoring a total of 10 points in the last 3 games(all losses of course) that someone might want to consider changing something on the offense?

[FIDO]

IMO, Burg has played 2 games uninspired, with concrete blocks on their feet at the LOS. At best, a 6 win season, then week 11. I hope I'm wrong.

And the O play calling came through again! First interception gave McNich a short field resulting in 6 points. Second int was returned for a TD.

The one drive Burg showed life, the OC moved away from what worked when Burg got close to the end zone. Ugh!

Oh, and let’s not forget going for it on 4&10 from the 40

I didn't understand why they took #2 out of the game when Burg had 3rd and 10 at the same 40. Offensively, I'd get the ball in #2s hand as much as possible. Anyway, I'm sure they'll get it figured out.

[RBH23]

I can’t watch them anymore but was wondering how many burg kids were laying on the field after the whistle to draw attention to themself?

Really didn’t see any of that.

Biggest thing I saw was a QB who is struggling with his confidence. Kid has potential, but the play calling is not helping.

[RBH23]

If it is as simple as just do what Kirtland does because they do what Ed Miller use to do..... then why did Ed only win 1 state championship at Burg. According to you if they run power football and have a playbook that could fit on 1 page, they will win the state all the time. That is what Ed did and won one time (same as this group of coaches who implemented a different style)

It is small school football you can not have a certain offense or defense set in stone and say we do this and this only. You have to adjust with the style of football in the current era and also your players. Burg made a change long ago because of the style of athletes they had coming. Now, I agree with you in the fact that style does not match this team.

The power run game the Burg ran in the 80s and 90s fit most of their teams. But did it always fit? Did they have success, but maybe could of done better? Could you imagine Jonathan Eaton running the spread offense with a D1 tackle protecting him? He would of been unreal.

Offenses need to be balanced these days. If you can only run the ball then you will eventually run into a defense that can and will stop you. That happened to a bunch of very good Burg teams in the 90s. In 2017 Burg was balanced, if they could of only threw and had no run game (which was the case in some of the prior years to 2017) they would of not beat Columbus Academy because of the athletes they had. That team did not have one dominant style but was able to use multiple personnels and figure out a way to beat each team.

So in the end I do not disagree with you... I just do not like the argument that says well Ed did it and this how we use to do it. Because that way only won 1 State championship as well. I can think of at least 4 teams in the 80s and 90s where I feel like they were legitimately the best team in the state but didnt get it done.

That year they also benefited from playing 3 straight teams from Regional Finals and on that could only run the football and run defense was the strength of that defense. Not that the secondary was bad by any means, but imagine if Eastwood, Johnstown, or Madison could be balanced and threw the ball enough to keep you honest. It would of been a much tougher defensive assignment.

Ed took over a 5-5 Burg team, and then proceeded to go 81-7-2 over the next 9 seasons, including five undefeated seasons. But back then, making the playoffs was nearly impossible. Only 3 divisions with 8 teams per division in the playoffs; so only 24 total teams made it in the entire state!!

Burg’s first playoff appearance was a 14-0 loss to the eventual state champion. Then missed the playoffs for a few more years before getting back and running into CAPE, again the EVENTUAL state champion.

Burg had three straight years with classic battles against Versailles with the third resulting in a state title. Ed coached two more years with his last year being a loss in the state semifinals by a score 28-14.

So the simple answer is Burg only made the playoffs a handful of times back then because just making the playoffs was a massive accomplishment; not like today where 448 teams make the playoffs!!


As for style, the reason I preach Ed’s style is because it works! Kirtland had never won a playoff game before their new coach took over. He brought an old school style of football to Kirtland with tremendous success.

But the best example of this is Hilliard Davidson under Brian White, a guy who played for Ed. He used the exact same style of offense to lead HD to 6 regional titles and 2 state titles in D1. He used this old school style to beat and compete against the best schools in Ohio!!!
Now after White retired, HD took your “advise” and modernized their offense. The results? A complete disaster with the team being no longer competitive. They gave up what made them successful to “adjust to the current era.”


But your post proved my point with your reference to the Columbus Academy game. As you said, without a run game, Burg would not have beaten Columbus Academy due to CA’s athletes. That’s 100% correct!!! And that is why Burg needs to be a run first team with the QB under center! This is also why Kirtland is a run first/heavy team. Just like Burg, Kirtland does not have the athletes to run the spread. And without the athletes, the spread is dead in the water when attempted against teams that do have athletes.

In the 1970’s, only 4 teams per the 3 Divisions qualified for the playoffs for a total of 12 ! So the first playoff game was the state semifinals followed by the state championship the next week which is the path Ironton took in 1979 when they won it all. When Burg qualified for the first time in 1981 it has expanded to 2 teams per region and 8 per division

My bad. I thought it was two per region in the 70’s. Thanks for clarifying.

[RBH23]

IMO, Burg has played 2 games uninspired, with concrete blocks on their feet at the LOS. At best, a 6 win season, then week 11. I hope I'm wrong.

And the O play calling came through again! First interception gave McNich a short field resulting in 6 points. Second int was returned for a TD.

The one drive Burg showed life, the OC moved away from what worked when Burg got close to the end zone. Ugh!

Oh, and let’s not forget going for it on 4&10 from the 40

I didn't understand why they took #2 out of the game when Burg had 3rd and 10 at the same 40. Offensively, I'd get the ball in #2s hand as much as possible. Anyway, I'm sure they'll get it figured out.

Not using #2 more is criminal. I would even consider putting him on the backfield at times. Gotta get him more touches.

[The Regulator]

Seems like that has become Burgs Achilles heel. The last few years they make a certain players there spot light and that’s their focus and no one else matters. Problem is now there isn’t the talent there anymore like there was. Just an outside observation. Also, you can’t blame the coaches and play calling when the talent isn’t there

[Jawnjkang98]

I can’t watch them anymore but was wondering how many burg kids were laying on the field after the whistle to draw attention to themself?

"Superior coaching and culture" bred some soft chubby suburban boys in the land of milk & honey.

[Irwin20]

Were the weights for Burg listed on the roster legit? Must have been 8-9 kids listed 280 plus, 3 over 300? McNick has one kid maybe 275. What are you feeding those guys?

[art_vandelay]

Were the weights for Burg listed on the roster legit? Must have been 8-9 kids listed 280 plus, 3 over 300? McNick has one kid maybe 275. What are you feeding those guys?

No, it’s right. But you also saw how much it really mattered in the end. I’d rather have smaller, more athletic linemen if I’m trying to run Burg’s offense.*

[RBH23]

Were the weights for Burg listed on the roster legit? Must have been 8-9 kids listed 280 plus, 3 over 300? McNick has one kid maybe 275. What are you feeding those guys?

No, it’s right. But you also saw how much it really mattered in the end. I’d rather have smaller, more athletic linemen if I’m trying to run Burg’s offense.*

Here’s a great article about the spread, including drawbacks to running it.

Couple key points the author makes:
-If you have smaller Offensive linemen than normal, this offense can help. (Burg has bigger OL than normal).

-If your QB is having a bad day, your offense is having a bad day.

-If their skill players are better than yours, it’s going to be a long day. (HP and IHS will almost always have better skill players).

-If they can play man coverage and bring all the rest of their defense on a blitz, you are in trouble!

Clearly Burg is running the wrong offensive scheme given typical talent Burg produces!

https://texashsfootball.com/coachs-corn ... d-offense/

[art_vandelay]

Rbh: nothing I can disagree with there. It just seems like Burg trying to run an offense that doesn’t fit their personnel. If that’s the type of linemen you want on the field, then line up and go power. Otherwise, up the conditioning in the offseason and get the big boys as athletic and in-shape as possible.

While we’re at it, jaw/chilly/speekillz/whatever name he using this week, spittin alot of truth about the difference in buy-in at Ironton vs Burg. 75-player rosters sound great on paper. But I’d rather have 50 football players who live in the weight room and workout year-round.

Doesn’t mean football players can’t still be multi-sport athletes. But if they want game reps in football, they better get in their football lift/workout in the mornings before school on non-gamedays. “Voluntary” morning workouts from December-August would identify your football players, while at same time exposing the guys only showing up in June just to get a jersey and be in the team pic.*

[Jawnjkang98]

Rbh: nothing I can disagree with there. It just seems like Burg trying to run an offense that doesn’t fit their personnel. If that’s the type of linemen you want on the field, then line up and go power. Otherwise, up the conditioning in the offseason and get the big boys as athletic and in-shape as possible.

While we’re at it, jaw/chilly/speekillz/whatever name he using this week, spittin alot of truth about the difference in buy-in at Ironton vs Burg. 75-player rosters sound great on paper. But I’d rather have 50 football players who live in the weight room and workout year-round.

Doesn’t mean football players can’t still be multi-sport athletes. But if they want game reps in football, they better get in their football lift/workout in the mornings before school on non-gamedays. “Voluntary” morning workouts from December-August would identify your football players, while at same time exposing the guys only showing up in June just to get a jersey and be in the team pic.*

All that land of milk and honey wheelersburg prosperity is breeding some chubby suburban boys. Ironton boys are just tougher and more blue collar.