SVC Changes

[danicalifornia]

It would benefit Unioto to play more competitive teams throughout the seasons when it comes tournament/playoff time, but like Tanks said, they haven’t been truly dominant in a single sport for quite some time now.

The benefit of possibly winning 1-2 more tournament games is there, but does it outweigh the benefits of being in a stable league with bigger crowd and that has only changed once since the late 70’s and that was because Bishop Flaget closed? I’m not sure.

As was stated above, the MSL appears to be on the verge of closing, which leaves only the FAC available that would make any sense. However, is the FAC stable? There’s been rumors that McClain and Hillsboro were unhappy for a while and Chillicothe has been in 4 different conferences this century, even though I believe they are finally settled in now.

For the SVC, it is a solid league as far as membership and travel time. The other members clearly don’t want Unioto out, as that could’ve been done a few years ago when it went to a vote and was massively voted down. I feel as though with the current economic state that that vote would be similar today if it were done.

The biggest change I’d like to see in the SVC would be done with their middle school scheduling, because it doesn’t help the smaller schools keep kids interested when they are having little success against the top schools 2-3 times per season in basketball/volleyball. Them playing a double round robin during the regular season is a terrible idea besides being easy to schedule. Playing a single round robin wouldn’t eliminate schools from being able to play twice in the same season, but would give some schools more leeway into scheduling more competitive games.

[Zahns Corner]

The SVC appears fine as is but will events as mentioned above in the MSL or a SOC-OVC merger force the issue.

[MadeInRossCounty]

Why?

Why not? Every school that you talk to in the SVC says it's time for Unioto to find a new conference. People can say it's because they are too big of a school to stay in the SVC, maybe. Truth is they just win too much.

Why bc we’ve been decent at football for 3 years? The only time I think we were actually dominant was basketball from like 2014-2017 when they won almost 70 league games in a row

That's exactly why. The football program winning gold balls. Unioto and Waverly to the FAC? Who would SVC add that makes sense for the league. Hypothetical of course.

[MadeInRossCounty]

It would benefit Unioto to play more competitive teams throughout the seasons when it comes tournament/playoff time, but like Tanks said, they haven’t been truly dominant in a single sport for quite some time now.

The benefit of possibly winning 1-2 more tournament games is there, but does it outweigh the benefits of being in a stable league with bigger crowd and that has only changed once since the late 70’s and that was because Bishop Flaget closed? I’m not sure.

As was stated above, the MSL appears to be on the verge of closing, which leaves only the FAC available that would make any sense. However, is the FAC stable? There’s been rumors that McClain and Hillsboro were unhappy for a while and Chillicothe has been in 4 different conferences this century, even though I believe they are finally settled in now.

For the SVC, it is a solid league as far as membership and travel time. The other members clearly don’t want Unioto out, as that could’ve been done a few years ago when it went to a vote and was massively voted down. I feel as though with the current economic state that that vote would be similar today if it were done.

The biggest change I’d like to see in the SVC would be done with their middle school scheduling, because it doesn’t help the smaller schools keep kids interested when they are having little success against the top schools 2-3 times per season in basketball/volleyball. Them playing a double round robin during the regular season is a terrible idea besides being easy to schedule. Playing a single round robin wouldn’t eliminate schools from being able to play twice in the same season, but would give some schools more leeway into scheduling more competitive games.

Agree with your take on Unioto being more prepared come tournament/playoff time if they were in another conference. What do you think about the FAC? Chillicothe vs Unioto rival on the schedule and for a conference championship would draw big crowds.

[Dundas]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

Big
Unioto
Zane Trace
Amanda
Logan Elm
Circleville
Waverly

Small
Westfall
Piketon
Paint valley
Southeastern
Adena
Huntington

[greygoose]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

Big
Unioto
Zane Trace
Amanda
Logan Elm
Circleville
Waverly

Small
Westfall
Piketon
Paint valley
Southeastern
Adena
Huntington

Not like if would happen, but this is probably one of the better ideas in terms of teams and where they should fit.

[formerfcfan]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

I’m not personally interested in explaining the entire situation publicly. Partly because it’d be too long to read — the explanation and prologue is very detail-intensive and will bore 99% of this board’s readership to tears. Also because some of the issue stems primarily from the actions of people who aren’t affiliated with the MSL anymore for various reasons, but…

…suffice to say…

…they can’t add anyone into the Buckeye.

The public-facing answer I’ll give is you can’t get those 7 schools to agree on an addition anyways. The other public-facing answer is these schools, from what I understand, are basically on the understanding that they will eventually depart as opportunities become available. It’s unknown if those seven schools anticipate going in 3-4 (possibly even 5?) different directions all at once, or if it will be a piecemeal breakup that bleeds the conference dry.

It’s just not functionally possible, nor worthwhile, to explore any MSL expansion. I don’t think those Buckeye schools see each other as future league compatriots (aside from pairings like CV/LE + AC; HT and maybe BC) for that matter. BC and HT, if they haven’t already, will outgrow the conference. Fairfield Union and Liberty Union are two schools that are both in no man’s land on their future: FU may look to be a future member in the MVL and Liberty Union is either gonna be homeless or in the LCL.

[Bozo]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

Big
Unioto
Zane Trace
Amanda
Logan Elm
Circleville
Waverly

Small
Westfall
Piketon
Paint valley
Southeastern
Adena
Huntington

Zane Trace is smaller than Piketon and Westfall. Plus, they will get smaller the next few years on enrollment. I am sure ZT would want to play in the bigger dtvision though if something like this happened.

[billythekid69]

SVC needs to expand... The competitive landscape has changed and the conference must adapt. The SVC is a stable league... It would not be difficult to expand. These teams are with no research but make logical sense. Im sure about 4-6 other schools could be plugged in to replace the ones I listed.
Would still have cross over games every year that rotate.
SVC I
Unioto
Westfall
Zane Trace
Piketon
Add... McClain & Waverly
Unioto & Westfall are D4... Zane Trace & Piketon were very close to D4.

SVC II
Southeastern
Adena
Paint Valley
Huntington
Add... Northwest & Eastern Pike

[Rolltanks]

It would benefit Unioto to play more competitive teams throughout the seasons when it comes tournament/playoff time, but like Tanks said, they haven’t been truly dominant in a single sport for quite some time now.

The benefit of possibly winning 1-2 more tournament games is there, but does it outweigh the benefits of being in a stable league with bigger crowd and that has only changed once since the late 70’s and that was because Bishop Flaget closed? I’m not sure.

As was stated above, the MSL appears to be on the verge of closing, which leaves only the FAC available that would make any sense. However, is the FAC stable? There’s been rumors that McClain and Hillsboro were unhappy for a while and Chillicothe has been in 4 different conferences this century, even though I believe they are finally settled in now.

For the SVC, it is a solid league as far as membership and travel time. The other members clearly don’t want Unioto out, as that could’ve been done a few years ago when it went to a vote and was massively voted down. I feel as though with the current economic state that that vote would be similar today if it were done.

The biggest change I’d like to see in the SVC would be done with their middle school scheduling, because it doesn’t help the smaller schools keep kids interested when they are having little success against the top schools 2-3 times per season in basketball/volleyball. Them playing a double round robin during the regular season is a terrible idea besides being easy to schedule. Playing a single round robin wouldn’t eliminate schools from being able to play twice in the same season, but would give some schools more leeway into scheduling more competitive games.

Who should unioto play that would help us in the playoffs? Everyone has this comment but I’m not sure anyone understand the reality of our situation

[Tanks3232]

It would benefit Unioto to play more competitive teams throughout the seasons when it comes tournament/playoff time, but like Tanks said, they haven’t been truly dominant in a single sport for quite some time now.

The benefit of possibly winning 1-2 more tournament games is there, but does it outweigh the benefits of being in a stable league with bigger crowd and that has only changed once since the late 70’s and that was because Bishop Flaget closed? I’m not sure.

As was stated above, the MSL appears to be on the verge of closing, which leaves only the FAC available that would make any sense. However, is the FAC stable? There’s been rumors that McClain and Hillsboro were unhappy for a while and Chillicothe has been in 4 different conferences this century, even though I believe they are finally settled in now.

For the SVC, it is a solid league as far as membership and travel time. The other members clearly don’t want Unioto out, as that could’ve been done a few years ago when it went to a vote and was massively voted down. I feel as though with the current economic state that that vote would be similar today if it were done.

The biggest change I’d like to see in the SVC would be done with their middle school scheduling, because it doesn’t help the smaller schools keep kids interested when they are having little success against the top schools 2-3 times per season in basketball/volleyball. Them playing a double round robin during the regular season is a terrible idea besides being easy to schedule. Playing a single round robin wouldn’t eliminate schools from being able to play twice in the same season, but would give some schools more leeway into scheduling more competitive games.

Who should unioto play that would help us in the playoffs? Everyone has this comment but I’m not sure anyone understand the reality of our situation

I agree it may of helped last year but there’s no teams we could’ve played that would’ve changed the outcome against Clinton Massie lol

[Windog]

I don’t believe this is as much about Unioto, as is about the smaller schools. When you’ve got a team that’s D6 running out 35-40 kids, they are playing Freshman/Soph. Going up against a D4 team with 60 kids makes it’s difficult. Those D6 kids have 9 kids going both ways. With little depth. Not as big of an issue for a D4 school. Inevitably, they wear down and it gets away from them.

I won’t pretend to know how many Freshman play for Unioto. But I do know there are several at the smaller schools.

High school football at this level is sometimes a numbers game. Unioto has 226 boys. Huntington & Adena 135. Paint Valley 106.

In theory, combing any of those 2 schools would make them the same size.

Again, it’s not about Unioto winning. They just have a lot more resources (boys) to pull from. Which is an extreme significant competitive advantage.

[danicalifornia]

It would benefit Unioto to play more competitive teams throughout the seasons when it comes tournament/playoff time, but like Tanks said, they haven’t been truly dominant in a single sport for quite some time now.

The benefit of possibly winning 1-2 more tournament games is there, but does it outweigh the benefits of being in a stable league with bigger crowd and that has only changed once since the late 70’s and that was because Bishop Flaget closed? I’m not sure.

As was stated above, the MSL appears to be on the verge of closing, which leaves only the FAC available that would make any sense. However, is the FAC stable? There’s been rumors that McClain and Hillsboro were unhappy for a while and Chillicothe has been in 4 different conferences this century, even though I believe they are finally settled in now.

For the SVC, it is a solid league as far as membership and travel time. The other members clearly don’t want Unioto out, as that could’ve been done a few years ago when it went to a vote and was massively voted down. I feel as though with the current economic state that that vote would be similar today if it were done.

The biggest change I’d like to see in the SVC would be done with their middle school scheduling, because it doesn’t help the smaller schools keep kids interested when they are having little success against the top schools 2-3 times per season in basketball/volleyball. Them playing a double round robin during the regular season is a terrible idea besides being easy to schedule. Playing a single round robin wouldn’t eliminate schools from being able to play twice in the same season, but would give some schools more leeway into scheduling more competitive games.

Who should unioto play that would help us in the playoffs? Everyone has this comment but I’m not sure anyone understand the reality of our situation

I agree it may of helped last year but there’s no teams we could’ve played that would’ve changed the outcome against Clinton Massie lol

I’ll answer both here. As you stated, nothing was helping against Massie. That was just going to happen with the line play, needed more depth to be able to make needed changes that night that just weren’t available.

If you’re playing better teams (i.e. FAC level teams) over the final 7 weeks of the season instead of 4-5 weeks of not being challenfed over the last few weeks of the season would make you much more prepared for an Urbana, West Holmes, whoever in Week 11.

The addition of Portsmouth to the non-league is a positive because it’s a different type of athlete than you’re going to see later in the season. In the current SVC, which is way healthier than most other leagues, there isn’t much to do to help that can be done. Like I said, I don’t think any changes need made at the HS level in the SVC.

[unclequis]

Unioto was the laughingstock of SVC football for years for not being able to consistently beat smaller schools such as Southeastern, Paint Valley, and Adena. Now that they've won two league titles in a row, it's time for them to go? I'm not really sure about that. Every other league-sanctioned sport is about as competitive as you can ask a conference to be from top to bottom. Would it help Unioto football advance deeper in postseason? Possibly. But I don't really see how you can argue they need to go, simply based on 2-3 years of success. Prior to this season, 6/8 SVC teams won a gold ball in the last 6 seasons, with Westfall (who has had a lot of success this century so far) and Huntington being the only schools not to. There are schools in the league that simply aren't going to be able to compete at the top of each sport every season, and that's okay.

[Rolltanks]

Who should unioto play that would help us in the playoffs? Everyone has this comment but I’m not sure anyone understand the reality of our situation

I agree it may of helped last year but there’s no teams we could’ve played that would’ve changed the outcome against Clinton Massie lol

I’ll answer both here. As you stated, nothing was helping against Massie. That was just going to happen with the line play, needed more depth to be able to make needed changes that night that just weren’t available.

If you’re playing better teams (i.e. FAC level teams) over the final 7 weeks of the season instead of 4-5 weeks of not being challenfed over the last few weeks of the season would make you much more prepared for an Urbana, West Holmes, whoever in Week 11.

The addition of Portsmouth to the non-league is a positive because it’s a different type of athlete than you’re going to see later in the season. In the current SVC, which is way healthier than most other leagues, there isn’t much to do to help that can be done. Like I said, I don’t think any changes need made at the HS level in the SVC.

What schools in the fac could win games in d4 playoffs? Sure they can beat McClain but we can already beat them. Jackson is the only team capable of beating teams from outside the area. I’m not sure fac teams are gonna compete at all vs teams in the mvl or definitely not region 16 teams. Sure Hillsboro is better than southeastern but beating one or the other makes no difference. If we would want to play teams that get us ready to win playoff games wouldn’t we have to play teams that could win playoff games? I’m not sure ppl understand the difference in skill. Likely we play west Holmes this year and they are a 500 team low seed that would win the fac this year. Sounds lot easier if we just played Jackson in non conference that would be no different than joining the fac

[Play60Football]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

I’m not personally interested in explaining the entire situation publicly. Partly because it’d be too long to read — the explanation and prologue is very detail-intensive and will bore 99% of this board’s readership to tears. Also because some of the issue stems primarily from the actions of people who aren’t affiliated with the MSL anymore for various reasons, but…

…suffice to say…

…they can’t add anyone into the Buckeye.

The public-facing answer I’ll give is you can’t get those 7 schools to agree on an addition anyways. The other public-facing answer is these schools, from what I understand, are basically on the understanding that they will eventually depart as opportunities become available. It’s unknown if those seven schools anticipate going in 3-4 (possibly even 5?) different directions all at once, or if it will be a piecemeal breakup that bleeds the conference dry.

It’s just not functionally possible, nor worthwhile, to explore any MSL expansion. I don’t think those Buckeye schools see each other as future league compatriots (aside from pairings like CV/LE + AC; HT and maybe BC) for that matter. BC and HT, if they haven’t already, will outgrow the conference. Fairfield Union and Liberty Union are two schools that are both in no man’s land on their future: FU may look to be a future member in the MVL and Liberty Union is either gonna be homeless or in the LCL.

Could the next domino is the MSL saga be G.C.C. jumping with their CBL buddies? They seem to be on a different trajectory than the other Cardinal school in terms of enrollment. Similar to what you said about HT and BC going their directions. Thats kind of forcing the rest of the league to look elsewhere where and speeding up the process? LE, Cville, AC go south.... Rumors have swirled about MVL issues, do they expand? FU and Cambridge? LU seems like a good fit for the LCL like stated. This is all interesting especially if MSL is on the outs as is thought. If I recall correctly wasn't the Cardinal division on their final hour of departure before the Ohio beat them to it. Do those schools have the makeup to go off on their own?

[Rolltanks]

If things do change I wouldn’t mind several leagues just implode and new ones form for football.

[formerfcfan]

What is wrong with the MSL? I know TV outgrew them but are the other schools looking to leave the league as well? Logan Elm and Circleville may be too far for the FAC but if the SVC ever wanted to look into 2 divisions, that could help them in that regard.

I’m not personally interested in explaining the entire situation publicly. Partly because it’d be too long to read — the explanation and prologue is very detail-intensive and will bore 99% of this board’s readership to tears. Also because some of the issue stems primarily from the actions of people who aren’t affiliated with the MSL anymore for various reasons, but…

…suffice to say…

…they can’t add anyone into the Buckeye.

The public-facing answer I’ll give is you can’t get those 7 schools to agree on an addition anyways. The other public-facing answer is these schools, from what I understand, are basically on the understanding that they will eventually depart as opportunities become available. It’s unknown if those seven schools anticipate going in 3-4 (possibly even 5?) different directions all at once, or if it will be a piecemeal breakup that bleeds the conference dry.

It’s just not functionally possible, nor worthwhile, to explore any MSL expansion. I don’t think those Buckeye schools see each other as future league compatriots (aside from pairings like CV/LE + AC; HT and maybe BC) for that matter. BC and HT, if they haven’t already, will outgrow the conference. Fairfield Union and Liberty Union are two schools that are both in no man’s land on their future: FU may look to be a future member in the MVL and Liberty Union is either gonna be homeless or in the LCL.

Could the next domino is the MSL saga be G.C.C. jumping with their CBL buddies? They seem to be on a different trajectory than the other Cardinal school in terms of enrollment. Similar to what you said about HT and BC going their directions. Thats kind of forcing the rest of the league to look elsewhere where and speeding up the process? LE, Cville, AC go south.... Rumors have swirled about MVL issues, do they expand? FU and Cambridge? LU seems like a good fit for the LCL like stated. This is all interesting especially if MSL is on the outs as is thought. If I recall correctly wasn't the Cardinal division on their final hour of departure before the Ohio beat them to it. Do those schools have the makeup to go off on their own?

As much as it pains me to say, Fisher will always be at the beck and call of what Berne wants at the end of the day. I’d like to think it’d be a 50/50 agreement or that FC (who fundamentally has at least one more option on league future than what BU would) could help get Berne to be a little more intrepid on evaluating the future of where the Cardinal teams are actually going to play.

But, alas…

…at least they reminded Berne who the boss (on the field at least) is last Friday.

[formerfcfan]

I think what underlies a lot of this “future of South Central Ohio leagues” talk will plainly be the administrative networks. These leagues are athletics-based, yeah, but we’re also in an era where you can have as little a sample size as two nearby districts trending in different directions.

And, a lot of it is frankly capital-based as well as safeguarding from what can come from the Statehouse regarding the future of school funding. To use an MSL example, Bloom-Carroll and Amanda are for all intents and purposes apples and oranges. Up until about 2010, they were birds of a feather. They share a border and had more in common than in difference. Today? BC has been experiencing suburban growth that trickles to enrollment and capital. AC by contrast has stagnated. One district is able to use athletics as a means to bolster district portfolio, so much so that they can pay the AD a ~100k salary while the other can only use athletics as a means to keep kids engaged with school.

Other than having more raw enrollment than AC, Circleville and Logan Elm aren’t any closer themselves to being ‘like’ BC. You can sub Amanda out and that applies, too, to a smaller Liberty Union. So, we have this scenario where CV/LE (+ AC) conceivably will want to get themselves in league with districts more similar in profile and composition to them… like WCH, Miami Trace, possibly even Chillicothe or Jackson, maybe Unioto? Because they’re not going to find what they’re looking for toward the north or east, let alone the MSL framework.

[PVBearcat2012]

Enrollment Numbers for Boys | Girls (before competitive balance)
Adena | 124 | 134
Huntington | 137 | 134
Paint Valley | 98 | 109
Piketon | 185 | 160
Southeastern | 118 | 124
Unioto | 215 | 273
Westfall | 203 | 156
Zane Trace | 175 | 156

The only sports that Unioto has dominated for years upon years in a row are track and cross country, which honestly are two sports where number of perspective athletes just matter more than other sports.

I mean, the numbers of kids between the top of the SVC numbers wise (Unioto, Westfall, Zane Trace, and Piketon) are significant between the bottom four (Huntington, Adena, Southeastern, Paint Valley), which would be the only case to split up into a big and small.