I think we had a pretty good crowd at the Tank this year, but I couldn't vouch for Ironton's other home games, obviously. I know that, in the SEOAL, we get a very good crowd from Logan (but we've been playing them for years anyway), but not so much from everyone else.
Now, to do apples to apples, when we were still pretty much an independent, about the only visitor who brought a good crowd was Steubenville. Maybe Beaver Local. But again -- more apples and apples -- our program was down during those years, so our HOME crowd wasn't that good, either.
I'll say it again -- this league really needs to consider SATURDAY SCHEDULING, especially for the schools farthest apart, in an attempt to maximize attendance from visiting schools. What's more, I think you would also see interested fans from other member schools (as well as your other area schools) in those crowds.
Otherwise ... I think you're only going to see more revenue erosion.
Ironton Out Of SEOAL?
NYBuckeye96 wrote:philthyphil wrote:
Vass said in the 2003-04 school year, all athletics combined garnered approximately $172,000 in revenues. That figure was approximately 182,000 the following school year and approximately $156,000 during the 2005-06 school year. But in the 2006-07 school year, the first year in the SEOAL, revenues dropped to approximately $112,000.
Wow, that is a major drop off in revenue! I'm curious to see if other SEOAL schools lost revenue as well? I guess that is why "fantasy leagues" are just that - fantasy. If the fans don't travel and you lose so much money, what's the point???
I'm assuming fans from DeSales, Belfry KY and whoever else Ironton used to play must have travelled well? At least better than the SEOAL schools?
If gasoline prices continue to increase, I'm guessing fan attendance at away games will decrease for all schools, especially if the games are far away.
NYBuckeye96,
Great Point on Gas Prices. I still like the idea of splitting us up North and South. Right now the North would have to play 7 non-league games and 3 league games, until they reaplace Athens and maybe try to add one or two more teams up there way. In the South we would play 6 non-league games and 4 league games. We could play inter-divisional games, but as non-league games and also try to add one more team too.
ARMY
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Tigercannon71
- SEOPS Hippo
- Posts: 28648
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:14 pm
Zanes-Vegas wrote:Tigercannon ...
My take is this -- the original motion to get out was a knee-jerk reaction. Frankly, it struck me as being rather dubious, and perhaps a personal agenda on the part on one person.
The way you're supposed to do it is STUDY it, then make an EDUCATED decision.
Give Mr. Vass the time he needs to pull the numbers together ACROSS THE BOARD and then make a decision from that ... not on a whim.
Looks like they got the numbers and did some research and still no educated decision. This reverse decision sounds like a personal agenda to me.
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Zanes-Vegas
- Varsity
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:15 pm
On ONE year? Sure, that's a drop, but that's just a number. What were the factors? You can't tell me the hubbub down there over Lutz leaving the football program (not to mention the other "problems") didn't factor into the reduced revenues. It had to. You can't just say, "Oh, we lost $42,000, so we're out," and not figure out the REASONS why you lost $42,000.
Then you look at the running numbers for THIS year and see if the trend is continuing. If it is, then you've maybe identified a major problem. At the least, you've identified a TREND. Then the question becomes "are there ways we can reverse this WITHOUT just quitting the league?" If there aren't, then quit the league.
But, IMO, it strikes me you've got someone down there with his own agenda, someone who is determined to do it his way. You ask me, introducing that motion and even getting a passing vote on it in the first place was a DERELICTION on both his part and those who sided with him.
It was a knee-jerk reaction and over the top. Let the administration do what it needs to do and move on from there. If it means Ironton opts out, so be it.
But for crying out loud, make a sound decision on sound information, not a Chicken Little reaction.
Then you look at the running numbers for THIS year and see if the trend is continuing. If it is, then you've maybe identified a major problem. At the least, you've identified a TREND. Then the question becomes "are there ways we can reverse this WITHOUT just quitting the league?" If there aren't, then quit the league.
But, IMO, it strikes me you've got someone down there with his own agenda, someone who is determined to do it his way. You ask me, introducing that motion and even getting a passing vote on it in the first place was a DERELICTION on both his part and those who sided with him.
It was a knee-jerk reaction and over the top. Let the administration do what it needs to do and move on from there. If it means Ironton opts out, so be it.
But for crying out loud, make a sound decision on sound information, not a Chicken Little reaction.
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ohbuckeye2
- SEOPS HO
- Posts: 8854
- Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:29 pm
- Location: Ironton, OH
Zanes-Vegas wrote:I think we had a pretty good crowd at the Tank this year, but I couldn't vouch for Ironton's other home games, obviously. I know that, in the SEOAL, we get a very good crowd from Logan (but we've been playing them for years anyway), but not so much from everyone else.
Now, to do apples to apples, when we were still pretty much an independent, about the only visitor who brought a good crowd was Steubenville. Maybe Beaver Local. But again -- more apples and apples -- our program was down during those years, so our HOME crowd wasn't that good, either.
I'll say it again -- this league really needs to consider SATURDAY SCHEDULING, especially for the schools farthest apart, in an attempt to maximize attendance from visiting schools. What's more, I think you would also see interested fans from other member schools (as well as your other area schools) in those crowds.
Otherwise ... I think you're only going to see more revenue erosion.
I agree 100%, I think you would get much better attendance on Saturdays for the long distant games.
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Zanes-Vegas
- Varsity
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- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:15 pm
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henrysteele
- JV Team
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:10 pm
Zanes-Vegas:
You are so removed from the situation in Ironton. Why would you make such comments on here?
Bob Vaughn, the school board member you are speaking about, did NOT make a motion in December without gathering information. Over the years, this guy has filmed numerous basketball games for coaches such as Amy Hughes and Roger Zornes. For the past two years, he has filmed football games in order to make the video clips you see on Ironton Football Dot Com. He was involved with the athletic department prior to being on the school board and has continued to be involved as time permits.
By making a motion to stop the bleeding, Bob Vaughn was simply being fiscally responsible! If any agenda exists, it is with other board members. The board asked for input from Mr. Vass and he gave it to the board straight up. Mr. Vass even stated that we can remain in the league until we "go broke". Yet, some board members want more info.
The league simply isn't working out for us when it comes to the bottom line....$$$. One board member wants us to play football on Saturday nights to generate more $$$. Well, nearly everybody in town knows what Coach Lutz would think about a Saturday football plan.
You are so removed from the situation in Ironton. Why would you make such comments on here?
Bob Vaughn, the school board member you are speaking about, did NOT make a motion in December without gathering information. Over the years, this guy has filmed numerous basketball games for coaches such as Amy Hughes and Roger Zornes. For the past two years, he has filmed football games in order to make the video clips you see on Ironton Football Dot Com. He was involved with the athletic department prior to being on the school board and has continued to be involved as time permits.
By making a motion to stop the bleeding, Bob Vaughn was simply being fiscally responsible! If any agenda exists, it is with other board members. The board asked for input from Mr. Vass and he gave it to the board straight up. Mr. Vass even stated that we can remain in the league until we "go broke". Yet, some board members want more info.
The league simply isn't working out for us when it comes to the bottom line....$$$. One board member wants us to play football on Saturday nights to generate more $$$. Well, nearly everybody in town knows what Coach Lutz would think about a Saturday football plan.
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Tigercannon71
- SEOPS Hippo
- Posts: 28648
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:14 pm
Zane, if you had a business that was pulling in $200,000 a year by itself then you decide to join forces with another business and you lose $50,000 and you decide to get out of that partnership that seems like a good business move not a knee jerk decision by 1 person. It was a bad business move to get in the league and staying in the league is an even worse business move.
henrysteele wrote:Zanes-Vegas:
You are so removed from the situation in Ironton. Why would you make such comments on here?
Bob Vaughn, the school board member you are speaking about, did NOT make a motion in December without gathering information. Over the years, this guy has filmed numerous basketball games for coaches such as Amy Hughes and Roger Zornes. For the past two years, he has filmed football games in order to make the video clips you see on Ironton Football Dot Com. He was involved with the athletic department prior to being on the school board and has continued to be involved as time permits.
By making a motion to stop the bleeding, Bob Vaughn was simply being fiscally responsible! If any agenda exists, it is with other board members. The board asked for input from Mr. Vass and he gave it to the board straight up. Mr. Vass even stated that we can remain in the league until we "go broke". Yet, some board members want more info.
The league simply isn't working out for us when it comes to the bottom line....$$$. One board member wants us to play football on Saturday nights to generate more $$$. Well, nearly everybody in town knows what Coach Lutz would think about a Saturday football plan.
henrysteele,
A lot of us know about Bob and know his dis-like of the SEOAL. With that said, if you can't handle losing some times, because you all will never rule as you did when I went to school in the 70's and then after I had been long gone to 1985, my friends from Ironton, those days and that SEOAL is long gone.
I think it can work but as Zanes Vegas said, for one year stats and you all are ready to cut out again something is wrong with that picture
If Coach Bob and Mr. Vaughn and Kantucky II and the others down there that hate to lose from time to time and wants Ironton to play there Kentucky and West Virginia Teams again, just say it. Be men. I am sure someone in Ironton would probably pay your $20,000 to get out again. If you all want to revert back to a (for the most part, cream-puff schedule) go for it.
The only real competition you all will play then is, maybe a Columbus St. Francis Desales or Columbus Bishop Watterson from time to time, and your fellow League Team at the present the ( Portsmouth Trojans) along with the (Wheelersburg Pirates) from the SOC II. Your other sports can revert back to playing OVC, SOC I and II teams again as you all did prior to re-joining the SEOAL for a third time. But whats that do for your kids in getting league honors and playing for championships. A big Null...
Football isn't the only sport I presume at Ironton too right
But it seems the few could care less about them. It's all about Tiger Football who I may add is a good team, but will never be like they were from 1970-1985. Not in this SEOAL make-up.
Good Luck. I am glad to see the Ironton Board for the time being reversed the hasty silliness proposed by Mr. Vaughn.
If you all leave, it's not going to crush Chillicothe, they are very content with the SEOAL, but would rather Ironton hang in there and stay.
ARMY
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Old Tom Morris
- Freshman Team
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:05 am
Lets see
Lutz and Saturday night games >>>>> seems I remember a time when Bob Lutz's teams played their home games on Saturday nights and I do not know that he had a problem then.
Lower revenue >>>> 2006-07 I think that was last year when a lot of people from Ironton stayed away from games due to their displeasure as result of Coach Lutz not being the coach.
2007-08 >>>> final figures would not be available yet with the exception of football revenue. Difficult to judge but a trend may be evident.
As far as all the other stuff, it is a worthwhile idea to give a review to the situation after a 2 year time frame of participation. That being said, the original motion as it was presented here and in the Newspaper did not mention a study to consider leaving the league, it was a montion to leave. Leaving without a review and full consideration of the consequenses involved is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE - far from being fiscally responsible on Mr. Vaughn's part once you consider any monetary penalities that would be sought by breaking the contract without the 2 year notice included in the orginal contract.
There are plenty of other factors that are contributing to lost revenue, I am fully aware that a significan number of people enter the gates without a ticket and do not pay admission. Many of the fans from the visiting schools, as Zanes-Vegas pointed out, have a difficult time making it to the game from work on a Friday. I am sure the Ironton fans have the same problem on the longer distance games when they play away.
tigercannon - a sound business decision is made with a complete review of the facts contributing to the lost revenue along with the impact that the decision will have on a secondary level (penalities). I agree that financial losses can not continue but an understanding of why those financial losses are happening and what can be done to bring about additional revenue is a prudent business decision process. You assume that leaving the SEOAL will result in an increase in revenue, please explain that process. Show me your model of increased revenue and attendance.
Give Mr. Vass and the rest of the Athletic Department (coaches) a chance to give imput before making a motion to leave, that would hae been the responsible thing to do. Thank goodness the "new" board saw the light and will make the decision with the proper information to consider. That is prudent business decison making! Waiting another 4 to 5 weeks will not make a difference either way, you still have to give 2 years notice of leaving or buy your way out of the contract and leave now.
Lutz and Saturday night games >>>>> seems I remember a time when Bob Lutz's teams played their home games on Saturday nights and I do not know that he had a problem then.
Lower revenue >>>> 2006-07 I think that was last year when a lot of people from Ironton stayed away from games due to their displeasure as result of Coach Lutz not being the coach.
2007-08 >>>> final figures would not be available yet with the exception of football revenue. Difficult to judge but a trend may be evident.
As far as all the other stuff, it is a worthwhile idea to give a review to the situation after a 2 year time frame of participation. That being said, the original motion as it was presented here and in the Newspaper did not mention a study to consider leaving the league, it was a montion to leave. Leaving without a review and full consideration of the consequenses involved is TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE - far from being fiscally responsible on Mr. Vaughn's part once you consider any monetary penalities that would be sought by breaking the contract without the 2 year notice included in the orginal contract.
There are plenty of other factors that are contributing to lost revenue, I am fully aware that a significan number of people enter the gates without a ticket and do not pay admission. Many of the fans from the visiting schools, as Zanes-Vegas pointed out, have a difficult time making it to the game from work on a Friday. I am sure the Ironton fans have the same problem on the longer distance games when they play away.
tigercannon - a sound business decision is made with a complete review of the facts contributing to the lost revenue along with the impact that the decision will have on a secondary level (penalities). I agree that financial losses can not continue but an understanding of why those financial losses are happening and what can be done to bring about additional revenue is a prudent business decision process. You assume that leaving the SEOAL will result in an increase in revenue, please explain that process. Show me your model of increased revenue and attendance.
Give Mr. Vass and the rest of the Athletic Department (coaches) a chance to give imput before making a motion to leave, that would hae been the responsible thing to do. Thank goodness the "new" board saw the light and will make the decision with the proper information to consider. That is prudent business decison making! Waiting another 4 to 5 weeks will not make a difference either way, you still have to give 2 years notice of leaving or buy your way out of the contract and leave now.
Well if Ironton actually leaves the SEOAL again....that gives the SEOAL an 8 team League. No more split divisions. Everybody plays against each other. So no more bragging whose got the better division. That also means SEOAL Basketball will have a 14 game SEOAL Schedule.
Each team playing each other twice.
The same most likely with the baseball schedule too.
ARMY
Each team playing each other twice.
The same most likely with the baseball schedule too.
ARMY
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Old Tom Morris
- Freshman Team
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:05 am
One other small detail
I believe there is a meeting of the SEAOL just prior to the BOE meeting that Mr. Vass will be giving his "report" to the board. I think the league has a meeting schedule for February 13th.
Maybe Mr. Vass will be able to get some feedback from the other schools with respect to their revenue stream situation at that time.
Knowing the Ironton fan base, there is one way to increase revenues. A few more wins is all it will take.
I believe there is a meeting of the SEAOL just prior to the BOE meeting that Mr. Vass will be giving his "report" to the board. I think the league has a meeting schedule for February 13th.
Maybe Mr. Vass will be able to get some feedback from the other schools with respect to their revenue stream situation at that time.
Knowing the Ironton fan base, there is one way to increase revenues. A few more wins is all it will take.
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Tigercannon71
- SEOPS Hippo
- Posts: 28648
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:14 pm
Less travel time means more people can get off work and go to the games. More people at the games means more revenue. Plus less travel means less gas used which means more profit. Also to avoid the penalty you vote to get out after the 2008 season. That means you stay one more year which will make it easier for all teams to get their schedule fixed for the 2009 season. Look at what Zane Vegas said if he gets off work at 5 he cant make a game at 7:30 at Ironton. There are a lot of people in Ironton in that same vote.
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Zanes-Vegas
- Varsity
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:15 pm
tigercannon71 and henrysteele ...
I didn't realize I had no opinion in this discussion merely because of my distance from Ironton. My humble apologies.
Bottom line is that you can not simply make this decision by looking at the bottom line. You need to look at the factors. What was going on at Ironton last year -- all that turmoil and in-fighting -- HAD to have as much of an effect on that bottom as did weaker gate receipts due to drawing fewer visiting fans.
Secondly, with all due respect to one of this state's best football coaches, it's not HIS decision alone regarding the playing of Saturday night football games. In the long run, the league must do what's best for the league, and if one of those moves is to play long-travel games on Saturdays, then so be it. Coach Lutz would have to weigh the price paid for playing on Saturdays against gaining greater revenues to pay "other prices."
I might also add that you do not join a league for one sport only. While football and boys basketball (usually) are the main revenue generators, don't forget you have other sports at IHS, too.
From this perch far away, it looks like there are a number of folks "in charge" down there who need to screw their heads back onto their shoulders, take a deep breath and do the due diligence to make sure the final decision is the best interest of EVERYONE, not just a few who are still steaming over the original decision to get into the league.
I didn't realize I had no opinion in this discussion merely because of my distance from Ironton. My humble apologies.
Bottom line is that you can not simply make this decision by looking at the bottom line. You need to look at the factors. What was going on at Ironton last year -- all that turmoil and in-fighting -- HAD to have as much of an effect on that bottom as did weaker gate receipts due to drawing fewer visiting fans.
Secondly, with all due respect to one of this state's best football coaches, it's not HIS decision alone regarding the playing of Saturday night football games. In the long run, the league must do what's best for the league, and if one of those moves is to play long-travel games on Saturdays, then so be it. Coach Lutz would have to weigh the price paid for playing on Saturdays against gaining greater revenues to pay "other prices."
I might also add that you do not join a league for one sport only. While football and boys basketball (usually) are the main revenue generators, don't forget you have other sports at IHS, too.
From this perch far away, it looks like there are a number of folks "in charge" down there who need to screw their heads back onto their shoulders, take a deep breath and do the due diligence to make sure the final decision is the best interest of EVERYONE, not just a few who are still steaming over the original decision to get into the league.
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2trap_4ever
- S
- Posts: 1680
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:55 pm
Everyone needs to look at the big picture, even though it is hard to not look at a 42,000 dollar lost, if Ironton wants out then they should leave. Think about it like this, if you go to a meeting or some get together and you don't want to be there it shows, that same thing could happen on the field, if the school, team and coaches don't want to be in the league then that could show by an even worse performance on the field. I think Ironton should leave, they should take Portsmouth with them and we just have a Lawrence/Scioto football confernece, break it up between big school and small school, that way conference games are not that far away. Example, if someone from Irontont gets off work at 5 they could make it to Lucasville or Portsmouth West by 7:30, I can understand Ironton's problem with travel, it is far and no one on here can say they want to travel to a far off road game with gas prices the way the are, esp if you are just going to see your team lose. If Ironton wants out they should leave, there doesn't need to be any study, any group meeting about it, just leave, the more the BOE talks about this then the more they will talk themselves into staying when they really want to leave.
Also, if Lutz has all say for the football team, has anyone even asked his opinion, if he want's to stay then stay, but I know deep down his pride was hurt last year and he didn't come back to lose, if getting out of that conference gets Ironton winning again then do it.
Also, if Lutz has all say for the football team, has anyone even asked his opinion, if he want's to stay then stay, but I know deep down his pride was hurt last year and he didn't come back to lose, if getting out of that conference gets Ironton winning again then do it.
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Tigercannon71
- SEOPS Hippo
- Posts: 28648
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:14 pm
Zane, if football and basketball is your money makers and youve lost that much money on your money makers then imagine how the other sports are feeling the strain on their budgets. Bottom line if your money makers arent making the money then you know your other sports are definitly hurt. Bottom line is get out before you got to cut some sports completely.
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Zanes-Vegas
- Varsity
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:15 pm
It's that bad that fast? Please ....
I stand by my contention. It's a knee-jerk reaction without a thorough examination of the facts. And it puts a bad light -- again -- on Ironton. Have some of you folks down there yet figured out why there are so many others OUTSIDE of your town are so critical of what's going on.
I look at it this way -- a strong Ironton athletics program is good for the SEOAL, and vice versa. You can always go out and schedule yourselves wins playing as an independent. But what does that really get you? "Tradition" is a fine thing ... but then there is the reality of TODAY.
I stand by my contention. It's a knee-jerk reaction without a thorough examination of the facts. And it puts a bad light -- again -- on Ironton. Have some of you folks down there yet figured out why there are so many others OUTSIDE of your town are so critical of what's going on.
I look at it this way -- a strong Ironton athletics program is good for the SEOAL, and vice versa. You can always go out and schedule yourselves wins playing as an independent. But what does that really get you? "Tradition" is a fine thing ... but then there is the reality of TODAY.
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Tigercannon71
- SEOPS Hippo
- Posts: 28648
- Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:14 pm
You want the reality of today. Heres the reality of today for you we never should have gotten into the league in the first place. A few people thought they knew better and that is why Ironton is in turmoil right now. Facts are bearing out that this was a very wrong decision. Its time to cut bait and get out while we still can. If you got a finger with gangrene you dont wait and see and if something can be done to make it better you cut it off before it can spread to your hand and you lose it. Same here you lose that much money in one year you need to get out before you lose more money or programs even. Its a sound business decision.
