Who should be the 8th member of the TVC OHIO?

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:15 am

I wish I could make this topic a poll just to see who the top vote getter would be, but who do you think should be the 8th member of the TVC OHIO?

Just to throw out some options to pick from:

Schools from counties that currently have TVC teams:

Athens County:
Trimble - Division 6 school - The Tomcats are the only TVC Hocking school to win championships in the old unified TVC, so history says they are able to compete year in and year out with the Ohio schools. Downside - The fact that the Tomcats are Division 6. Also, if the Tomcats really wanted in the Ohio, I'm sure their administrators would have asked to switch from the Hocking to the Ohio by this point.

Federal Hocking - Division 5 school - The Lancers are a founding member of the TVC so logic would say they should be in the same division as the other long time TVC members. While they traditionally have been weak in football, they have traditionally been strong in other sports. Downside - If you look at enrollment numbers, Fed Hock will most likely be a Division 6 school in another 6-10 years. Their elementary school enrollment numbers are much lower than their current high school enrollment numbers. Like Trimble, if Fed Hock really wanted to leave the Hocking for the Ohio, their administrators probably would have asked to switch by this point in time.

Washington County:
Fort Frye - Division 5 school - The Cadets are members of the OVAC, which is a sort of "fake league" in that dozens of schools are in this league and they just crown 4 winners based on overall records I believe. At least, its not a league in the sense that the TVC, SEOAL, MVL, etc. are. Downside - None of the TVC schools really have a rivalry with Fort Frye except for Belpre, and I'm not even sure if it's an intense rivalry or not.

Frontier - Division 6 school - See Fort Frye. Plus, Frontier is D 6.

Warren - Division III school - Founding member of the TVC but left after the '85 season to join the SEOAL. The Warriors are roughly the same size as Athens and Vinton County. Downside - Warren has shown no interest in leaving the SEOAL.

Perry County:
Crooksville - Division V school - By far the smallest school in the MVL. Has traditionally strong sports teams, but always must compete against much larger schools in league play. Downside - Crooksville has shown no interest in leaving the MVL. It has been reported that the TVC offered the Ceramics a chance to join, but Crooksville declined. Travelwise, this would be a long drive for some of the southern TVC schools.

Jackson County:
Oak Hill - Division V school - Applied for membership to the TVC in the early 90's, but was denied by the TVC by one vote. Downside - The Oaks seem to fit in well with the SOC I schools. I have not heard anything from anyone at Oak Hill that would lead me to believe they were unhappy in the SOC. Also, this would be a long drive for some of the northern TVC teams.

Non-TVC Counties:

Gallia County:
River Valley - Division IV school - The Raiders were offered a chance to join the TVC in the early 90's but turned it down to join the SEOAL. After leaving the SEOAL, the Raiders applied for membership into the TVC, but were one vote shy of being accepted at that time (mostly due to the earlier snub for the SEOAL). Downside - This would be a long drive for some of the northern TVC schools. Also, with enrollment numbers, River Valley will probably be Division V at some point in the near future (not sure if that would be a downside or not, but I put it here anyways). Also, I'm not sure if River Valley would want to leave the OVC, even though it is basically a Lawrence County league plus River Valley.

Mason County, WVA:
Point Pleasant - Would be Division III in Ohio I believe - The Big Blacks would fit in nicely if not for one main downside - they are a West Virginia school. This created scheduling problems when they were members of the SEOAL.

Wahama - Would be Division 6 (I think) in Ohio - Traditionally strong sports teams, but like Point Pleasant, the fact that they are from WV could create scheduling issues.

I think the above named schools are the only ones that could even be considered to be the 8th team in the TVC OHIO. If a school is not in a current TVC County or a bordering county, the distance issue will be too big of an inconvenience for the current schools.

Who do you think should be the 8th school to join the league to even out the schedule? Drastic changes and fantasy leagues are too far fetched at this time I believe. So realistically, which one school do you think should be in the Ohio and why?

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:32 am

NYBuckeye96,

To be honest, River Valley right now is the only one out of that list that would most likely jump at the chance to transfer into the TVC from the OVC. I like Trimble D6 and Federal Hocking D5 but don't see them leaving the TVC Hocking do you? I know they are a larger school, but what about Gallipolis D4 from the SEOAL? They might be a POSSIBLE option? Another team, might be Bloom Carroll D4 from the MSL (Buckeye).

There's my two cents.

Army

YOU'RE TIGER BAIT · Post by **YOU'RE TIGER BAIT** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:42 am

i just hope the seoal schools stay put.

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Captain Jack wrote:How about Jackson? If the SEOAL falls apart, I'd like to see Jackson join.

Or even Gallia and Jackson. I'd like to see Gallia, Jackson, Meigs, Wellston, Vinton County and Athens in one league. Heck, add River Valley and Oak Hill and it could be called the SVAC after the now defunct league that used to have Gallia county schools along with some others.

Jackson
Oak Hill
Wellston
Vinton County
Gallia Academy
River Valley
Meigs
Athens

Looks like a good league to me.

Yeah, but Jackson D2 would dominate that league. You see what they do to our (Alma Mater) year in and year out in week 1? I think Gallipolis would be O.K., althougth they would dominate for awhile? Oak Hill D5 would never play in the same league with a Athens D3, Wellston D4, Gallipolis D4 almost D3, Meigs D4 almost D3, and Jackson D2. If memory serves me right, Oak Hill dropped Jackson from there non-league Football shedule after the 1966 season. I don't know if the two schools play against each other in B-Ball and other sports or not. I doubt if Chesire River-Valley wants to come back to that punishment either. Remember they were in the SEOAL from the 90's until the early 2000's. I see Wellston one day seeking greener pastures again. As they dwindle in numbers and are heading for a D5 status.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:04 pm

Well that is a fantasy league that would never happen in my opinion. Plus, Athens will have its biggest league rivalries in the TVC with Nelsonville-York and Alexander in most sports, so I doubt the Bulldogs would go to a new league without the Buckeyes and Spartans being a part of it. The games with the most fans in attendance for the Bulldogs are the Buckeyes and Spartans.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:23 pm

Army, why do you think Wellston will leave the TVC OHIO just because they fall to Division V? NY and Belpre are both D V and they have won more titles than any other school in the league. When you are talking differences between Division III and V, there aren't really a lot of differences, at least not as much as between Division I and Division III. Vinton County had been the largest league school until Athens was added, and NY is 32-8 all-time against the Vikings. Of the 8 losses, only 1 was by more than one touchdown. (4 losses were by one point, 1 loss was by two points, 1 loss was by three points, 1 loss was by six points, and the one loss by more than one touchdown was by 36 points) So if Wellston did leave one day, I don't think the size of the school should have anything to do with it.

rivercat · Post by **rivercat** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:48 pm

How about Waverly ?

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:17 pm

NYBuckeye96 wrote:Army, why do you think Wellston will leave the TVC OHIO just because they fall to Division V? NY and Belpre are both D V and they have won more titles than any other school in the league. When you are talking differences between Division III and V, there aren't really a lot of differences, at least not as much as between Division I and Division III. Vinton County had been the largest league school until Athens was added, and NY is 32-8 all-time against the Vikings. Of the 8 losses, only 1 was by more than one touchdown. (4 losses were by one point, 1 loss was by two points, 1 loss was by three points, 1 loss was by six points, and the one loss by more than one touchdown was by 36 points) So if Wellston did leave one day, I don't think the size of the school should have anything to do with it.

NYBuckeye96.
If Wellston continues on there slide to D5 it's not about leaving the TVC-Ohio because of the school's size, but if and when Westfall D4 might eventually move to the MSL-Buckeye when the league does make changes, with some MSL Schools exit for the OCC due to severe growth, such as, Columbus Hamilton Twp. D2, Ashville Teays Valley D2 and Canal Winchester D3. All most likely will be D1 in the next 5 years or so, due to the continued population growth of Columbus folks moving into those communities.

If and when Westfall leaves the SVC one day for the MSL-Buckeye, I could see the SVC come knocking on Wellston's door. And I could see Wellston jumping into that league in a heart-beat. The SVC would be the the shortest travel-time league Wellston would have ever been part of. The cost would be far less concerning fuel cost, the competition in sports would be on a level playing field, and great fan support due to less travel. Wellston has been playing SVC schools in Non-League Play and in scrimmages for about 15 years now. Wellston has actually been playing against the SVC for 33 plus years in several sports. It's a Ross County League with Piketon from Pike County, minus Westfall from Pickaway County, would make Wellston the only Jackson County team in it.

Wellston has built a goodwill rapport with the SVC over the years.

We will have to wait and see if this would really ever come about.

The SVC is located very close to Wellston.

1. Piketon D4 is just 30 minutes away Rt. 93-32-23N exit

2. Londonderry SE-Ross D5 is about 25 minutes Rt. 93-683-50W

3. Chillicothe Huntington-Ross D5 is 35-40 minutes Rt. 93-683-50-23S

4. Chillicothe Unioto D4 is about 40 minutes away Rt. 93-50-23-35-104N

5. Chillicothe Zane Trace D4 is 40 minutes away Rt. 93-683-50-23-159N

6. Frankfurt Adena D5 is about 50 minutes Rt. 93-683-50-23-35W

7. Bainbridge Paint Valley D5 is about 50 minutes Rt. 93-683-50W

ARMY

Mad-Dogg · Post by **Mad-Dogg** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:52 pm

rivercat wrote:How about Waverly ?

sorry but i don't see waverly or any other soc team leavin and joinin the tvc

mister b · Post by **mister b** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:53 pm

Nobody from the TVC Hocking will move to the TVC Ohio, that has been discussed in the past and there is no interest.

Nobody else from Washington County is even remotely interested in the TVC - Ohio or Hocking - and I doubt if there will be any support for bringing in another school from Washington County as it is seen as too far to drive now either to Belpre or Waterford.

I am not in favor of another school just to add someone. I really don't like the idea of Athens coming into the league, just too big. Give them a few years and I think they have a real good chance of dominating the league in all sports, boys and girls, winning breeds success and more players who want to play. A deeper pool of talent to draw from.

What I see happening is, instead of adding an 8th team, I see someone leaving. I still like having 5 conference games in football and 10 in basketball etc. The reason being, this gives you the option to schedule a stronger non-conference schedule, especially not playing teams that other conference schools are playing, this helps in computer points for football.

Belpre is picking up Trimble for football. I have no problem with us playing Trimble except they are already playing Nelsonville and this lowers the level 2 computer points we would get by beating Trimble. The same goes for the number of points Nelsonville would get for doing the same.

I think Nelsonville has a good idea with it's non-conference schedule except they may have scheduled too many good teams. You win to get points and there may not be too many wins in their non-conference schedule for next year. Winning all the TVC Ohio games will not get you in the playoffs by itself, it will help, but you cannot count on winning your conference every year as being a key factor in getting into the playoffs.

A few years ago the TVC had 3 or 4 teams getting in the playoffs several years in a row and that was great. I would like to see that happen more in the future. Getting 7 and 8 teams in the TVC Ohio will keep this from happening. Get it back down to 6 teams and schedule better non-conference wise (meaning everybody play different teams to build up level 2 points).

oneoak · Post by **oneoak** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:29 pm

River Valley. They are close enough and they fit in size wise. I would like for Oak Hill to play more of the TVC Ohio teams in non-league play in all sports, but I think we are probably in about the best league situation for us already. We play in the smaller SOC I in football and sometimes track and in the larger SOC II in all other sports. But still, I think the Ohio would be a good move if we were to change leagues.

Army · Post by **Army** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:14 pm

oneoak wrote:River Valley. They are close enough and they fit in size wise. I would like for Oak Hill to play more of the TVC Ohio teams in non-league play in all sports, but I think we are probably in about the best league situation for us already. We play in the smaller SOC I in football and sometimes track and in the larger SOC II in all other sports. But still, I think the Ohio would be a good move if we were to change leagues.

I second that with River Valley

Philos_Finest · Post by **Philos_Finest** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:14 pm

Crooksville would be a good fit.

Though no one wants them to leave the MVL, It would make a whole lot of sense.

Army · Post by **Army** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:43 pm

Philos_Finest wrote:Crooksville would be a good fit.

Though no one wants them to leave the MVL, It would make a whole lot of sense.

Philos_Finest,
So would River Valley

sandman · Post by **sandman** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:00 pm

The TVC would be a nice fit for RVHS. There have been problems in the past, mostly on RV's part. When they physically consolidated the schools, the administration and board were convinced that they could compete in the SEOAL and snubbed the TVC. Not only at that time but I think twice more. RVHS does not work well in the OVC. I think that with some thought they could compete but they will never be accepted into that regional league.

Perhaps as GCLS studies the future of the prgrams, they will consider these things.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:18 pm

NY played River Valley five times in football - '03 - '07. If you go back further in time, NY played the former North Gallia Pirates in football four times - '70-'73.

I'm not sure any type of a rivalry developed in those recent games between the schools. I'm not saying one couldn't develop, it just never happened as of yet. That being said, I don't think any school has a real rivalry with River Valley. Maybe Meigs and maybe Gallia Academy, but I don't think River Valley has ever developed a real hardcore rivalry with anyone yet.

I do know that when River Valley asked to join the TVC before joining the OVC that NY was one of the NO votes, and I believe Belpre was the other NO vote. And both NY and Belpre voted YES the first time River Valley applied and would have been in the TVC if they did not snub their nose at the TVC and join the SEOAL.

I'm not sure if the current unbalanced schedule problem would lead NY or Belpre to changing their minds now or not. Also, Athens would now have a vote as well. Not sure how Athens would vote, but they do have a recent history with River Valley in the SEOAL.

The one thing River Valley has going for it is that it borders a current TVC district (Meigs), so if you look at the TVC geographical map, it would be a fit, although it would be the most southern of the league schools, which the northern schools of NY, Belpre, or even Athens might not want a team that far south in the league.

The one thing I like about the TVC is that it is "compact" and the districts all border each other. The only exceptions to this are the Washington County schools: Waterford in the Hocking Division which is kind of up by itself, and Belpre in the Ohio Division, which is separated from Federal Hocking by a small strip of land that is Warren (but Belpre is still pretty close to Athens County regardless).

But other then that, the TVC is all five Athens County schools, all three Meigs County schools, and the only school in Vinton County. Wellston, in Jackson County, geographically borders Vinton County and Miller in Perry County geographically borders Athens County. That is one of the advantages of the TVC - that geographic compactness.

mister b · Post by **mister b** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:32 am

I don't have a say in this, but I would be surprised that Belpre would be in favor of River Valley coming into the TVC. I don't think they were very supportive of Crooksville coming into the TVC.

Folks don't like to hear this but, with the high cost of fuel, districts are starting to look at costs associated with athletics. Transportation is the 3rd largest cost after equipment and coaching salaries. Depending on the equipment being replaced in any given year, transportation could very well be #2. More schools are scheduling 9th, JV and varsity games for basketball on the same night. Some of the larger schools need 2 buses when you add in the cheerleaders and when you do this, any cost savings is ate up in running 2 busses on one night vs running 2 busses on seperate nights.

You can't just look at football and boys basketball. You have to look at the entire athletic picture, junior high through varsity - both boys and girls. Many folks only look a long trip for a varsity football game or boys basketball game and say.." oh well, its not like it is every night..." alot of the time it is. A vast majority of the girls games and all junior high games are on school nights. How can you justify having kids at a sporting event from the end of school until 11:00 pm or so on a school night? It is not fair to the kids to expect them to study on a bus night after night.

I think the TVC should not expand by adding another team to even out a schedule. However, I think alot of the AD's will consider it a good idea because it is hard to get games, especially in football, from week #4 on and the AD's will get tired of digging for games in week 4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10. It is easier for an AD to have a large conference that makes up 80 to 90% of the regular schedule and all you have to do is say..."see you next month or next year at your place..." schedule done.

My advice would be...

#1. If your are going to add another school/schools then add larger schools and split the conference into 3 divisions based on school size. Large/medium/small.

or...

#2. Leave the membership where it is. Work in weeks 4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 in football to fill a nonconference game and DO NOT rotate that nonconference week every couple of years between the schools so each school knows every year that it has the same open date in week 4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10 and they can keep that week the same and it will be easier to schedule games that way.

But, the TVC is known to do odd things at odd times. So, who knows what rabbit will be pulled out of the hat at a conference meeting.

55buckeyes98 · Post by **55buckeyes98** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:54 pm

Crooksville seems to be the best fit and with the enrollment of the rest of the schools in the MVL I think it would be time to get out unless Tri-Valley leaves...

Army · Post by **Army** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:39 am

River Valley