Do you think the state will mandate district consolidations?

[NYBuckeye96]

In the wake of school funding inequalities and the fact that some districts are losing students over time, do you think the State of Ohio will have another wave of forced consolidations like existed in the 1960's?

Several districts keep getting smaller and smaller over time. This is one of the reasons the state forced consolidations in the 1960's.

For example, in the decades after the coal mines and brick factories left Nelsonville, the school age population steadily decreased. For the same reasons, the population of York Local schools decreased as well. This led to the state mandating that Nelsonville and York consolidate. Similarly, Glouster and Jacksonville-Trimble were forced to consolidate, Chauncey, The Plains, and Athens consolidated, Pomeroy, Middleport, and Rutland consolidated, and Vinton and Hocking Counties found themselves with one consolidated high school in each county.

When Nelsonville-York first consolidated in 1967, there were approximately 2,200 students in the district according to the book "Getting to Know Athens County". By 1983, that figure shrank to 1,700 students. When I was in high school in the early/mid 90's, NY had around 1,500 students. Today, NY has a little over 1,300 students in the entire district.

So more or less, NY has lost 200 students each decade since the consolidation.

I am not sure how many students Trimble had when they consolidated, but today they have approximately 1,000 students. I know they have lost many students as well over time, probably comparable to that of NY.

So NY has lost nearly 900 students in 40 years, which is only 100 students fewer than the current student population of Trimble Local Schools! This means that if NY and Trimble consolidated today, the new school district would only have a little over 100 students more than Nelsonville-York had BY ITSELF in 1967!!!!

If you factor in that around half of the students of Nelsonville-York came from Nelsonville, and the other half came from York (including Buchtel, Murray City, Carbon Hill, and York and Ward Twps), you will find that the student population of Nelsonville-York today is only a couple hundred students more than the old Nelsonville City and York Local schools had in their prime by themselves!!!

Given the fact that it has been 40 years since the last wave of forced school consolidations, and the fact that the state is trying to find the most economical way to fund schools while making things as near equal as possible, I just think that one day the state is going to come down to Nelsonville-York and Trimble and say "You have to consolidate!"

Likewise, I think the state will do this with several districts around the state. Some districts are too large to consolidate any further than they already are (Vinton County, Logan, Morgan for example).

However, if you consider that NY and Trimble are basicly township schools that are very close to each other and neither take up that much land in their current form, I just think NY and Trimble would be one of the first consolidations the state would mandate.

I don't think its a question of "IF?" but "WHEN?".

Does anyone else see a new wave of consolidations coming in the future? How do you think that will impact communities and sports teams?

[eagles73Taylor]

There are only 4 schools in Pike County. Eastern Pike, Piketon, Waverly and Western Pike.

Eastern Pike has 101 boys 9-11

Western Pike has 87 boys 9-11

Piketon has 216 boys 9-11

Waverly has 253 boys 9-11

Waverly is barely a city school. The last census was close to pushing Waverly back to being a village.

Piketons district is huge covering nearly half of the county.

I could see the state forcing Eastern, Western and Piketon together eventually, actually my dad use to say that they should and call the school Pike County high school, the home of the Patriots. Red White and Blue colors so no one school could argue. I could see this way in the future, districts are pretty proud of their systems.

I would hate this for the students, having to be bussed all over the county.

[Army]

In the wake of school funding inequalities and the fact that some districts are losing students over time, do you think the State of Ohio will have another wave of forced consolidations like existed in the 1960's?

Several districts keep getting smaller and smaller over time. This is one of the reasons the state forced consolidations in the 1960's.

For example, in the decades after the coal mines and brick factories left Nelsonville, the school age population steadily decreased. For the same reasons, the population of York Local schools decreased as well. This led to the state mandating that Nelsonville and York consolidate. Similarly, Glouster and Jacksonville-Trimble were forced to consolidate, Chauncey, The Plains, and Athens consolidated, Pomeroy, Middleport, and Rutland consolidated, and Vinton and Hocking Counties found themselves with one consolidated high school in each county.

When Nelsonville-York first consolidated in 1967, there were approximately 2,200 students in the district according to the book "Getting to Know Athens County". By 1983, that figure shrank to 1,700 students. When I was in high school in the early/mid 90's, NY had around 1,500 students. Today, NY has a little over 1,300 students in the entire district.

So more or less, NY has lost 200 students each decade since the consolidation.

I am not sure how many students Trimble had when they consolidated, but today they have approximately 1,000 students. I know they have lost many students as well over time, probably comparable to that of NY.

So NY has lost nearly 900 students in 40 years, which is only 100 students fewer than the current student population of Trimble Local Schools! This means that if NY and Trimble consolidated today, the new school district would only have a little over 100 students more than Nelsonville-York had BY ITSELF in 1967!!!!

If you factor in that around half of the students of Nelsonville-York came from Nelsonville, and the other half came from York (including Buchtel, Murray City, Carbon Hill, and York and Ward Twps), you will find that the student population of Nelsonville-York today is only a couple hundred students more than the old Nelsonville City and York Local schools had in their prime by themselves!!!

Given the fact that it has been 40 years since the last wave of forced school consolidations, and the fact that the state is trying to find the most economical way to fund schools while making things as near equal as possible, I just think that one day the state is going to come down to Nelsonville-York and Trimble and say "You have to consolidate!"

Likewise, I think the state will do this with several districts around the state. Some districts are too large to consolidate any further than they already are (Vinton County, Logan, Morgan for example).

However, if you consider that NY and Trimble are basicly township schools that are very close to each other and neither take up that much land in their current form, I just think NY and Trimble would be one of the first consolidations the state would mandate.

I don't think its a question of "IF?" but "WHEN?".

Does anyone else see a new wave of consolidations coming in the future? How do you think that will impact communities and sports teams?

NYBuckeye96,
And those Districts that don't might like to follow former Portsmouth East route and go Charter. Thus saving the school and keeping the hometown team with the community. As you have noticed, Portsmouth East is no longer Portsmouth East, but rather Sciotoville Community School, a Charter School.

That's also the problem with the DOE. Bigger is better is there philosphy. Bull-Crap! In my county I grew up in, There were 8 high schools at one time. Washington TWP in which the school building still stands was the first to go in 1947. They consolidated with Wellston. In the 60's with the big push for Bigger is better, Coalton High School, also consolidated with Wellston. They were a power house in Basketball at one time. Defeating several teams on the River and in Athens County. I believe before closing it's doors after the 1963-1964 season as a High School they were in the SVAC with North Gallia, Kyger Creek, Hannan-Trace, Eastern and Southern Meigs and Southwestern. Bloomfield consolidated with Oak Hill and Scioto TWP consolidated with Jackson. Look how consolidation kills little communities. Look at little Hamden, Ohio after they lost there school in Vinton County, the identity disappears. In another place like Wilkesville, some of there kids get bused on long trips to a school building they are not accepted at and half there kids will never get to start on sports teams as they did at there home school. When Hamden ? and the Wilkesville Jets closed after the 67 graduation this scenerio happened. I just don't get it. The people whose taxes pay for the schools are not accountable to the schools, but the schools are to the people. Likewise half these chicken #$#% State Reps and Senators we have. If the people raised up and threatened to vote out the Reps and Senators I bet they will pay more attention to those small districts that want to stay and keep there schools, there identities, and most importantly there sports teams. With todays technologies there is no excuse in the world to not have a top rated small school that offers a variety of subjects through physically teaching them or via the internet instruction.

Why do you think there are so many little Christian Schools that are State Chartered popping up in little communities that once supported a Public School? There are a numerous amount of them, that are becoming members of the OHSAA so there kids can play in the state tournament and have the same benefits as there public school counter-parts. Many of these small Christian Schools are fielding Soccer, Volleyball, Basketball, Track and Baseball Programs for both boys and girls teams. Look at the next 10 years and notice just how many more of these schools have popped up and are making a dent, both academcially and in sports. And, then, many will start to see the value as these small communities begin to support them as there own. Why? Because they have a team to watch again and there kids, although they have to pay tuition, they don't have to travel 30 miles one way on a bus no longer to a bigger school. They are attending right there in there own communities. Look for these schools to grow and become nation-wide as our DOE forgets the basics and loses ground with the public. Again who answers to who? Do we the tax payer answer to the schools and OHDOE or is it supposed to be vice versa?

ARMY

[bman618]

Yes, I think they should. For example, there is no reason why Ross County needs seven high schools. Four to five would do.

[danicalifornia]

bman- Who would you consolidate?

Huntington/Paint Valley?
Unioto/Adena? Although, Unioto is growing a lot.

[Army]

Yes, I think they should. For example, there is no reason why Ross County needs seven high schools. Four to five would do.

bman618,
Oh your for Big Govt telling the one who pays there salaries what to do huh? Without any voice or say so in the matter? How do you figure concerning Ross County Schools? Do you know how big Ross County is? And how big there School Districts are? Where are you from bman? Are you from Ross County?

1. Chillicothe Southeastern is a D5 (Boys-158-Girls 137)
2. Chillicothe Huntington Ross is a D5 (Boys-167-Girls 157)
3. Chillicothe Unioto is a D4 (Boys-228-Girls-221)
4. Chillicothe Zane Trace is a D4 (Boys-208-Girls-203)
5. Frankfort Adena is a D4 (Boys-160-Girls-139)
6. Bainbridge Paint Valley is a D5 (Boys-133-Girls-140)
7. Chillicothe City Schools D3 (Boys-335-Girls-361)

How do you figure, no small D6 schools in this county, unlike Scioto, Meigs and Gallia. No dis-respect to Scioto County, but there is no public high school in operation in Ross County with only 44 boys. Glenwood New Boston ring a bell? That's just one example! Portsmouth ND a private school has only 5 boys less than New Boston.

I bet if they took (Chillicothe Bishop Flaget) back to K-12 instead of it's present status K-8, they could have more boys in grades 9-12 over New Boston's numbers. And it's a Catholic School like Portsmouth ND.

Sorry bman, can't see it happening, especially when Huntington, Paint Valley, Southeastern, Unioto, Zane Trace, Chillicothe and Adena recently getting new school buildings.

Unlike New Boston, Portsmouth Clay etc....etc!

ARMY

[Onthefence]

I am tired of that old argument about ross county. I know there is a lot of reason for/against consolidation. Here is one item to consider next time you look at consolidation. Simple population VS numer of schools. I am not trying to single any county out here. I just picked these counties because they are similar counties and location. You look all around the state at rural counties and most appear to have similar numbers. Anyway, just pointing out Ross county IMO does not stand out any more or less than anyone else.

Ross County pop. 76,000 7 Schools
Scioto County pop. 79,000 10 Schools
Pike County pop. 28,000 4 schools
Pickaway County 53,000 4 schools

http://www.puc.state.oh.us/pucogis/STAT ... ts04_e.pdf

http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research/files/p200.htm

[91blue14]

if you want some state money they are going to try and create a 1 county school if the area is feasible. springfield is consolidating 2 d1 schools into 1 how they would accomplish it i dont know

[MTSWNGRVSG]

I do not see forced consolidation in the near future. Look at what is happening in Columbus-bigger schools spliting up into smaller schools.

[bman618]

I don't live in Ross County, I live in Pickaway.

I'm just bringing up an example of possible consolidation. It doesn't have to happen. For example, ZT and Unioto are good size districts. If I were going to consolidate, it'd be Huntington and Paint Valley combining.

All local villages, cities and counties are "creatures" of the state. Political subdivisions in other words. That isn't big government. This is the state of Ohio and they run the schools. You have your Board of Education for more local decisions on other matters. Having Washington D.C. tell Ohio schools what to do is big government.

Sure some would be against consolidation and many probably were in the 1960s but dollars are stretched and having so many districts don't make sense to me. Combining schools would make more dollars available to more districts and improve the quality of education and buildings.

[bman618]

I fully agree on combining some of these southeast Ohio schools and I would. For example, there is no need for more than one Portsmouth High School. Lancaster has one school and it is larger.

[MTSWNGRVSG]

Transportation in some rural counties in Southeastern Ohio can be rough. The back roads in some counties are very difficult to travel and kids can find themselves on the bus for a very long period of time. One district actually reopened a school because of travel and the lose of money because of open enrollment. Traveling close to 50 miles one way to school is too much. The district that did this had kids going over 45 miles one way to school before they reopened a high school in 96.

[trojandave]

Scioto County has 11 high schools, and that is too many for a county with a population of about 77,000.

People complain about lack of funding for education but are stubborn to move on the issue of consolidation. I am not a economic guru by any means, but I would think that fewer schools would be more financially beneficial to the local citizens and the state.

But old ways die hard......and after almost 100 years of separation, many people simply want to keep things the way they are.

[NYBuckeye96]

I do not see forced consolidation in the near future. Look at what is happening in Columbus-bigger schools spliting up into smaller schools.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Columbus suburbs are exploding in growth and population!!!! In southeastern Ohio, we are loosing population at an alarming rate! Growth areas get new schools to accommodate the new students. If areas are shrinking in population, you would be looking at consolidation in the eyes of the state.

[Army]

I don't live in Ross County, I live in Pickaway.

I'm just bringing up an example of possible consolidation. It doesn't have to happen. For example, ZT and Unioto are good size districts. If I were going to consolidate, it'd be Huntington and Paint Valley combining.

All local villages, cities and counties are "creatures" of the state. Political subdivisions in other words. That isn't big government. This is the state of Ohio and they run the schools. You have your Board of Education for more local decisions on other matters. Having Washington D.C. tell Ohio schools what to do is big government.

Sure some would be against consolidation and many probably were in the 1960s but dollars are stretched and having so many districts don't make sense to me. Combining schools would make more dollars available to more districts and improve the quality of education and buildings.

Point taken....no disrespect, but I don't see it happening, especially that all those schools in Ross County just got new schools or new buildings added! That's tax payers my friend who voted for those levy's and it would not set right with those people if the obnoxious State DOE demanded they close and consolidate. At least not in the next 2-3 decades. If your so concerned about Ross County, why don't Logan Elm and Circleville Consolidate? And Teays Valley and Westfall Consolidate for that matter. Lets see how that goes down with the folks. Don't see that happening either. I am talking about Big Govt as a whole. At the State level too.

Anyway you can bank on that comment don't see it happening concerning Ross County. Now as for Scioto with Green, Clay, New Boston, or NW and PW or PW and Portsmouth, Valley-Minford maybe. Forget about East, they are a Charter School now.

[MTSWNGRVSG]

I have seen the results, not always for the good of education or athletics!

[NYBuckeye96]

Army, I doubt new buildings would have much to do with it unless both districts had new buildings and would lose a new building to consolidation.

When Nelsonville and York consolidated, York had all new buildings at that time. NYHS was originally York High School when it was built. The buildings were only like 5 years old when NY was formed. The plaque at NYHS actually says York High School on it. The building served grades 7-12 for York Local when it was first built. York Elementary was built attached to the high school. The brand new Nelsonville-York Elementary opened in 1997 and was built behind York Elementary. The old York Elementary then housed preschool and kindergarden students for all of the district, as well as administrative offices. The old York Elementary is now being rennovated in the current building project. It should be finished this summer and then the new middle school will be built, and after that the high school will be gutted more or less and completely rennovated and new science labs added onto the building.

[Army]

Army, I doubt new buildings would have much to do with it unless both districts had new buildings and would lose a new building to consolidation.

When Nelsonville and York consolidated, York had all new buildings at that time. NYHS was originally York High School when it was built. The buildings were only like 5 years old when NY was formed. The plaque at NYHS actually says York High School on it. The building served grades 7-12 for York Local when it was first built. York Elementary was built attached to the high school. The brand new Nelsonville-York Elementary opened in 1997 and was built behind York Elementary. The old York Elementary then housed preschool and kindergarden students for all of the district, as well as administrative offices. The old York Elementary is now being rennovated in the current building project. It should be finished this summer and then the new middle school will be built, and after that the high school will be gutted more or less and completely rennovated and new science labs added onto the building.

NYBuckeye96,
Every School in Ross County has either a brand new school or have extended and built new buildings and new grade schools. SE-Ross, Unioto, Adena all have bew schools. Paint Valley, Huntington Ross, Zane Trace and Chillicothe City Schools have added buildings and built new schools. They just completed Multi-Million dollar projects on there schools after passing levy's to extend and get new complexes added to the already existing school buildings. And, added new Grade School Buildings that were just completed inside there School District located all at one site except Chillicothe. Paint Valley, Huntington-Ross, Southeastern-Ross, Unioto, Frankfort Adena, Zane Trace are all at one site now. Only Chillicothe City Schools have several buildings still. Chillicothe has a new Junior High Complex and new Jr High Gym. Added additions to the High School, a complete re-fit of the building re-fit of the H.S. Gym a new H.S. Practice gym built and new offices. No, I don't think Ross County is budging on that idea. Like I mentioned, I could see Scioto County looking that way in a few years. All there little schools are old and getting worse. Especially Clay and New Boston's Buildings. But not Ross County. Two, our County has the Tax Income Base to support all the schools. Chillicothe, Unioto, Huntington-Ross, SE-Ross, Paint Valley, and Adena has Gladfelter (MEAD), several business establishments in town, CSX and Norfork-Western Railroad, The VA Medical Center, the two State Prisons, The two Military Units, one is a USAR one is a OHARNG, several large farms in the county and shopping malls. Zane-Trace has Kenworth and Adena Hospital.

Hey do you still have that TVC History?

Thanks Army

[caglewis]

My guess is that mandated consolidation would become more likely if certain school districts were "in trouble" - levies failing multiple times, or falling test scores and ratings on that school "report card" thing, or proof of malfeasance on the part of the local BOE.
There are certain situations where the operational control of a school district can be taken over by the State BOE. Goshen Township in Clermont Co was in that situation a while ago. However it is a fairly large school surrounded by equally large schools. The only good candidate for consolidation would have been Blanchester which is just over the county line in Clinton Co. That situation in Goshen Township got resolved by the State instituting a mandatory "School Tax" [like a municipal income tax] collected by payroll deduction from all residents of that school district to fund the school since they wouldn't vote in favor of school operating levies; but to my knowledge, consolidation was never discussed.
If it is only a case of shrinking enrollment, I suppose the State BOE could apply some economic pressure [incentives] to local districts that would make it more attractive or beneficial only if they "joined forces" with another district.
Remember, "Township" schools were instituted when "travel" to school was by foot or horse. Better roads and busses made "stretching" the geographic size of school districts feasible. Now higher gasoline prices are providing an opposite incentive.
Again, only my guess, but if a school system is "keeping its house in good order", I doubt the State BOE would be inclined to force changes on them.

When I moved to Ironton over 40 yrs ago, there were 7 public elementary schools. [I'm not counting the St. Lawrence/St. Joseph Catholic school system.] All except one were within a mile of all potential students. There was NO lunch program at 6 of those schools, and students were not even allowed to bring a lunch to school - all elementary school students had to provide their own transportation and "go home" for lunch. The one exception where students could bring lunch and eat at school was West Ironton because Storms Creek created a barrier that made "walking to school" impossible for the whole northwest end of town. Bus transportation was provided only for Jr High and High School [and West Ironton Elementary] students.
As school enrollment shrunk, Ironton "consolidated" its elementary schools down to 3 over time. But that meant that lunch programs had to be provided at all schools and bus transportation had to be provided for most students - a trade off in lower administrative costs for fewer buildings but increased transportation and meal provision costs.
That was an "internal" consolidation - but those same factors are also going to be instrumental in larger consolidation considerations.

[bman618]

Army, I don't see LE and Circleville consolidating. For one, LE serves a large area. The western third of Hocking County attends Logan Elm, for example, as well as SE Pickaway. Pickaway went through its consolidation to get to four. Teays Valley is growing rapidly and probably will divide into two high schools sometime in the next decade. They are D1 in everything but football right now and when the intermodel gets going at Rickenbacker, that is going to increase the boom even more.

The only consolidation I could see in Ross County is Huntington and Paint Valley. ZT and Unioto are growing districts. Southeastern has brand new buildings. Adena has new buildings.

Scioto is a better example, as well as some of the other river counties.