Is Zanesville leaving the SEOAL after the 2008-2009 season?

2old · Post by **2old** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:38 pm

ZV,

I think your comment about everything being a Logan thing is out of line. If you count the number of posters and posts it seems like everything is a bit further south. It seems like just last week you ran into trouble yourself down there.

02,

I do not believe Reynolds could look down the road and see Athens leaving. He may have wondered about Zville and points south. However I think Chilly will remain in the league as it is a good fit for them. As far as Zville and Athens departing, i would say both are premature. Not enough time has passed for either one to make a good decision based on the league. Remember the Zville AD is a basketball coach. Based on the basketball level of this league, I would make his recommendation and blame it on receipts and expenses. The football coach may feel entirely different. The AD may feel different once he starts scheduling games in weeks 6-10 as an independent. Now if he knows an invitation to a league is coming his way then it may prove to be a good decision.

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:47 pm

2old,

I agree with you about Athens. I doubt if anyone would have predicted for that to happen the way it did. I would have thought that one of the Washington County schools would have left before Athens, but that doesn't matter now. Marietta and Warren are sticking with it right now.

As you said, I believe Reynolds was worried about the new editions. Zanesville is leaving and Ironton appears to be thinking things over. It was believed that Ironton and Portsmouth were some type of a package deal, but I'm glad Portsmouth is distancing itself from that notion.

I don't know what the Zanesville administration and coaches are thinking on an individual basis. I can understand their decision to leave, but like you said, why leave after only two years? If you were gonna enter the league for a couple years, why even go through the trouble. I know people will claim that it's the rise in gas prices, etc. but those were issues when expansion took place. I'm not saying that travel concerns aren't a good reason to leave, but why weren't they considered a barrier to joining in the first place?

I was a huge proponent of this new SEOAL from a standpoint of competition and overall strength of the league. However, I completely understood why Jackson voted no. Jim Reynolds convinced the administration that this league would not be stable and could lead to the crumbling of the SEOAL as a whole. Things seem to be on that very track right now. Let's just hope that we can keep at least 6 or 7 teams so that the SEOAL doesn't disappear in the near future.

Zanes-Vegas · Post by **Zanes-Vegas** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:57 pm

2old ...

You need to get a sense of humor. Please note my "laughing icon" attached to that post. Chill out.

Now, for your "guesses:"

* Our football coach is fine with this move. Heard it from his own lips. I'm sure he's concerned about what his schedule may look like in two years, but we also have two years to work on it. That is not an issue. He's committed to the continuous improvement of our football program, so if our schedule goes back to reading "Steubenville," "Beaver Local," etc., then so be it.
* Our basketball coach/AD is looking at this solely from the OVERALL view of the athletics program. The basketball program more than pays for itself, and also helps fund a lot of other things. Our football program had a great year, too, but that hasn't been the norm in recent years. It is, however, problematic to send the other sports teams on long trips to places such as Ironton. Here's one example -- our girls tennis team last fall had to make the 3-plus-hour trip to Ironton for the league tournament. They were there about an hour, if even that long, and then turned around and headed home. That's a pretty hefty expense for a sport that generates ZERO revenue.
* Another issue -- middle school sports. I may be wrong about this, but I think we're the only league team with TWO middle schools. That's two football teams, four boys basketball teams, four girls basketball teams (except this year at Grover Cleveland, where the transportation fee helped "kill" the seventh-grade girls team), and four girls volleyball teams. So our middle school expenses are (roughly) DOUBLE what it is for the other league members. That's another big financial factor.
* We do not have another league to go to ... yet. We have remained members of the OVAC, and will continue to do so (that is much more a benefit to our so-called "minor" sports). I believe the plan is to approach the ECOL one more time. The MVL is not likely because there is resistance from Crooksville (very understandable) and at least two other member schools (seven of the nine have to vote affirmatively to allow us in). But, in the long run, it's apparent that operating as a relative independent (which we did for about 10 years, so it's nothing new to us or our administration, BTW) is more fiscally responsible than to remain in the SEOAL. If you know anything about where our school district has been these past 3-4 years in those terms, you'd understand why that issue is VITALLY IMPORTANT in this equation.

This is no slam against the league. With the exception of boys basketball these past two seasons (and, as I said, that's an ANOMALY), the competition has been great. I think we line up pretty well with just about everyone. But the dynamics of high school athletics, especially in Southeastern Ohio, have changed and continue to do so. Ironton is facing it, Athens has faced it and now we're dealing with it. I would suspect other league schools are quietly looking at things, too. They should. To not do so would be irresponsible.

In the end, our administration and board has looked at the evidence, considered its options and has opted (though not yet officially) to move on. Ironton, in effect, is doing the same thing (though I still cringe at how it all came about).

Post by **noreply66** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:01 pm

Don't know Zanesville plans but being sort of close in mileage hope Logan and Zanesville can keep things going.

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:15 pm

noreply66 wrote:Don't know Zanesville plans but being sort of close in mileage hope Logan and Zanesville can keep things going.

The same between Chillicothe and Zanesville too.

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:38 pm

I don't think anyone was using a crystal ball...just common sense.

In my opinion, you don't expand(or overexpand) just to do it. You do it in the hope that you can create a more competitve league. When you expand, you expect those schools that vote "yes" to stick with the league(Athens). You also expect that the incoming members have looked at the situation from all angles and are serious about joining the league. If they are not serious and don't believe they will stick around, then they should not be added. If they're added and don't really want to be there, things fall apart. You could avoid the whole situation by not expanding just for the sake of expanding.

The SEOAL will most likely live on, but it will probably be with 7 teams at the most after the next couple years. That should be just fine, but we've gone through an awful lot of trouble just to basically get back where we started. Don't you think?

oldschoolblue · Post by **oldschoolblue** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:39 pm

Nobody take this the wrong way but Zanesville leaving and possibly Ironton leaving makes the reality of winning the SEOAL a little bit mor real for most teams. No disrespect to Logan, we know how dominant they have been in the past few years. I just wonder do we stand pat or go after another team and if so not only who would be a good fit but who would be interested.

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:02 pm

gahs4ever,

I think Portsmouth will stay, as long as Chillicothe does and vice versa. As for the two Washington County Schools.....you all know more about them than Chillicothe and Portsmouth do concerning there comittment to the SEOAL?

Who knows, we could end up with a 5 team league in 2-3 years.

Chillicothe D3
Portsmouth D4
Gallipolis (Gallia Academy) D4
Jackson D2
Logan D2

At least travel would be seriously reduced. Portsmouth could play the usual OVC Teams...then the SOC II Schools, Waverly, Wheelersburg, Portsmouth West, Ironton if they revert back to independent and maybe a TVC team.

On the other hand Chillicothe would most likely have to look North, West and East in the State to schedule there 6 non-league games. No one wants to play our CAVS in SE-Ohio. They all seem to think that Chillicothe is still a D1 School.

If memory serves me right, during the 1985-1986 season wasn't these the SEOAL Teams in the League that year

That was a 5 team SEOAL

Jackson
Gallipolis (Gallia Academy)
The Plains Athens
Marietta
Logan

ARMY

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:20 pm

oldschoolblue wrote:Nobody take this the wrong way but Zanesville leaving and possibly Ironton leaving makes the reality of winning the SEOAL a little bit mor real for most teams. No disrespect to Logan, we know how dominant they have been in the past few years. I just wonder do we stand pat or go after another team and if so not only who would be a good fit but who would be interested.

That's the million dollar question.....no one wants in. Most have tried and left. Waverly, Chesire River Valley, Point Pleasent, WV to name a few in the past. Ironton on there third trip.....N-Y was already Charter member as Nelsonville before consolidating and Meigs too, with Middleport and Pomeroy, the only exception was Rutland not being a member. I doubt anyone else would be interested. What we have is most likely it. If the league would go to 4 teams, one of them Chillicothe, I doubt they would stay very long. So I hope these AD's and School Administrators get there act together to keep this SEOAL together.

Gahs4ever and Jackson Posters,

For your record concerning those three SEOAL Schools will stay forever is a myth too.

Remember...... Jackson was staged to leave the SEOAL in the late 80's if the SOC II or SCOL would have voted for them instead of against them to enter there respected Leagues

So the Jackson thing about they were always and will always be in the SEOAL is not so true either. They were ready to exit just like Athens has, Zanesville and most likely Ironton will in this new round of change the SEOAL is going to go through.

Jackson posters.....I am sure Randy Heath and Pete Wilson could shine some light as to why Jackson wanted out of the SEOAL in the late 80's for greener pastures back then

Wasn't Larry Blackstone the HC back then for the Ironmen

Who was the AD at Jackson back then

ARMY

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:44 pm

Army,

Last time I checked, Jackson has been a continuous member of the SEOAL since its creation. IF they ever leave, then come and talk to me.

2old · Post by **2old** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:53 pm

ZV,

I loved the comment about the fb coach being on board. Strangely enough I agree with my boss alot too. :lol:

And I know Zanesville has recently been in a position to play an independent FB schedule. But refresh my memory was Scott the AD then?? Just saying scheduling all 10 games has got to be a headache. Of course if it was easy everyone would do it. I also want you to pm me the next time anyone brings a crowd like Logan to sit on the opposite side of the field from your seat in the press box.

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:03 pm

ironman02 wrote:Army,

Last time I checked, Jackson has been a continuous member of the SEOAL since its creation. IF they ever leave, then come and talk to me.

ironman02,
See you take it the wrong way. They were on the verge to leave, that's the point, but both leagues turned down there request so they had no where to go. So they stayed and have rode out the changes for the long haul within the SEOAL.

Let me ask you this, what if all 4 new teams leave, along with the two Washington County Teams and already with Athens gone, what is Jackson going to do

Play in a SEOAL with three teams

Let's see what happens THEN.

I know Chillicothe will stay...but if more teams exit The CAVS will for sure have a plan in place, like the MSL or SCOL. They may already have that in the works just in case. They have been faithful to playing in there respected leagues, but will not stick around with just 3 -4 teams.

Late 70s Logan grad · Post by **Late 70s Logan grad** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:04 pm

Jackson, Gallipolis and Logan have been members of the SEOAL from Day One. I think you'll see the league stay at eight teams (or seven if Ironton leaves). And it is correct that there was one year when there were only five schools and the league survived with six members off and on for a number of years before and after River Valley and Point Pleasant.

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:34 pm

Army,

I didn't take anything the wrong way. I responded to what you wrote. You said that it wasn't true that Jackson has always been and will always be a member of the SEOAL. At this time, it IS true. I told you to come and talk to me if they DID leave in the future.

Army · Post by **Army** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:00 pm

ironman02 wrote:Army,

I didn't take anything the wrong way. I responded to what you wrote. You said that it wasn't true that Jackson has always been and will always be a member of the SEOAL. At this time, it IS true. I told you to come and talk to me if they DID leave in the future.

ironman02,

O.K.............I would of figured a civil reply but as always the same from Jackson.

I take it you are ashamed that the Ironmen was seeking to leave the SEOAL in the 80's and afraid to admit it.

So much for loyalty......... to your 1925- back in the 80's huh

Oh, and if you are so committed to the SEOAL...1925-......why was your coaches continuing to attend TVC-Ohio meetings up until a few years ago. What was it the Jackson staff said at those meetings, we are keeping our options open and being observers. Like the TVC-Ohio was going to vote to let them in. Yeah...keep dreaming. What a laugh to all those TVC-Ohio Administrators it was to see the Jackson Coaches and Admin folks attend there Conference meetings.

But yes you all have been in the league since 1925 and to be congratulated for hanging in there.

For how long is the next question

Now, lets see if the SEOAL does fade down-hill, which we in Chillicothe don't want, but if it happens, lets see how Jackson feels about staying in a three team league all for the tradition of saying we have been here since 1925....and we are going to ruff it out

Stay tuned. Because you all have run out of teams to replace those that may exit next.

To include, the other two new teams, Chilli and Portsmouth, if it looks like not only Ironton going next, but also the two Washington County schools.

Your two other charter-member amigos will have nobody left down here in SE-Ohio interested in replacing us, if it does take place. There are no teams that are in local leagues now, that I doubt, willing to switch and leave there own close knit leagues for an SEOAL that may implode in a few years.

Travel...gasoline cost, etc, etc. The sad thing is, Gallipolis could probably get into the SOC II or TVC-Ohio. Not sure about the OVC.

Logan could probably get an OCC slot.

Jackson would not get no one to let them in a league in SE-Ohio.

That's the sad part.

Stay tuned....lets see if the walls do fall in.

ghostwriter · Post by **ghostwriter** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:26 pm

Zanes-Vegas wrote:And I tend to agree with that, ChiefCruiser95.

When we joined, fuel costs were nowhere near where they are now ... and the projections are that they'll only get worse. That MUST be taken under consideration. Especially for a school such as ours, which is a virtual outpost, geographically speaking.

At Zanesville, we do charge what many would call a "pay to participate" fee. That's not wholly correct, at least in how it's usually defined. ALL of this fee is used to defray transportation costs for those activities that use it (so it includes cheerleaders, the marching band, etc.). None goes to equipment, salaries, officials ... just transportation.

This is the fourth year of it, I think. The original fee was raised after one year, but we've had to do everything we can to hold it steady since then because -- as expected -- it began to erode participation levels. It's becoming especially prevalent in our middle schools, most notably at Grover Cleveland MS on our south side. While the fee pales in comparison to some schools' fees, we believe it to be a major impediment, especially in a district that has seen a steady decline in enrollment over the past few years.

Certainly, every school in the SEOAL should be considering its finances as it relates to athletics. Zanesville tends to "travel well," but my observations over the past two years is that MOST other league schools do not. Some of that, certainly, is predicated on "interest," but I also think a good portion of it is due to travel time and distance (not to mention that MOST of the routes are not exactly easy drives).

Zanes-Vagas,

At Zanesville what is the "Pay to Participate" fee for each sport or each student????

Zanes-Vegas · Post by **Zanes-Vegas** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:44 pm

2old, Steubenville, for one, always did, and MORE than Logan EVER.

Zanes-Vegas · Post by **Zanes-Vegas** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:48 pm

$135 for 1 activity, $270 for 2+ activities (1 kid), $405 for a family (3+ activities).

warrnwarriorfan · Post by **warrnwarriorfan** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:00 pm

I really don't see Warren going anywhere. The football program has a way to go, but is truly (finally!) headed in the right direction. Warren is very competitive in all the other sports. Yes, there was talk of the TVC (Warren is a charter member of that league) but the TVC does not want Warren in. I don't even think it's close. Warren beat Belpre this year in football and they were very competitive in the TVC. The only team that would be able to touch Warren in basketball is Vinton County. Warren's participation in the SEOAL has elevated it's athletics to the point that they would be at or very near the top of most of the different sports (girls too!) in the TVC.

I personally think Warren needs to stay put.

ghostwriter · Post by **ghostwriter** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:02 pm

Zanes-Vegas wrote:$135 for 1 activity, $270 for 2+ activities (1 kid), $405 for a family (3+ activities).

Zanes-Vagas, Thanks!!!!

By the way, does that also include participating in Band also????I'm probably answering my own question by saying Yes....Since, you use the word (activity) correct????