Old fashion football

[ddavis]

Payment number one. I have been accused many times over the years as being too conservative or not throwing enough. I do not apologize. In my opinion to be successful at a small school you have to be able to adjust to the talent of your team. You can't have a set offense or defense that you are going to run no matter what talent you have. Large schools, colleges, and pros can do this because there are enough players to choose from to do what you want to do. At a small school you better be able to adjust. I saw many teams this year try to run the spread because that's what everyone is doing. Our kids looked forward to playing these teams because they're usually more passive than run oriented teams. I played a split four defense for the first time in over twenty years. I always said the forty was for people that didn't know defense. There are probably a couple of reasons I didn't play the forty. One, I didn't know it upside down like I knew some of the other defenses and second, no matter how I shuffled things I needed to be in a forty to get the best defensive players on the field. I knew we could have a good team if I didn't screw it up. What did I do? I bought some 40 defense dvds and started studying. Any coach that thinks he knows everything is a fool. OK, OK I know I started talking offense and then went to defense. I have been accused of being very conservative. I am defensively oriented and believe that if you want to be an aggressive team you have to coach aggressive football. In a small school you are usually using the same kids to play offense and defense. In my opinion if you spend half or more of your practice time coaching a passive offense then when you go to defense your kids don't want to hit. When you coach a passing offense the lines first step is back. If you coach a running team your first step is forward. Which of those movements is more aggressive? You can have a quarterback that can throw 70 yards and it will do you no good if the line is weak and can't pass block or the quarterback is slow. If you have a quarterback that can run and throw then you can run a West Virginia type offense or something like Arkansas did when McFadden went to quarterback. Actually, my last year I coached before I took three years off we ran the muddle huddle or lonesome polecat with Brett Enz as quarterback. Ryan McGraw had decided to go to Minford so we had to come up with a quarterback. We knew Brett was talented. He was a better runner than passer. Our line was mostly young and weak so we used the philosophy spread them out and see if there is a run lane. We executed several big passes that year also. Was I old fashion or ahead of the game. You decide. The muddle huddle was always a joke when Rusty Webb coached with me in the early ninetys. Every once in a while we'll do it to each other still to keep the laugh going. My first experience with this blasted offense was back in 1971 in a game we played against West Jefferson High School. They were rated in the top five in the state and we went up there and was about to pull off the upset when we went to our defensive huddle and they snapped the ball and threw the quick screen to the back standing behind the line on the sideline and went for a TD. We were devastated. When I became a coach I swore I'd never get beat by that play. Another note of interest may be that I think the coach for West Jefferson that year was Coach Sines who I think spent several years at Chillicothe. I'll never forget the boys from West Jeff calling us river rats before the game. I wanted to kick some ass but..... you know the rest of that story. For some of you people that were in diapers in 1984 I'll have you know that we threw almost every down against a great Minford team. I think we lost 60-70 to nothing. Coach Jeff Berry didn't do anything wrong. His kids just wouldn't quit intercepting the ball and scoring touchdowns. Believe it or not we ran the run and shoot for half a season in the early nineties. Mark Spears and Rusty Webb were on the staff then. They were running the offense and doing a good job but we didn't have the people to run the offense. I can remember Mark coming to me and saying: Darryl you've got to take over the offense we suck. We went back to three yards and a cloud. The funniest thing about this is I think the run and shoot was Rustys' idea and now he's known to be as conservative as me. I've asked him many times why he did these things when my butt was on the line but now that you're a head coach you don't do it. He said,"I learned my lesson". Mark is still playing with the passing game and as soon as he can get a little more protection for his QB that offense will clickfor him. He definitely had the receivers. Next time I post I think I'll talk about some of our biggest wins since I've been coaching.

[coachb]

Awesome post, so many times coaches stick to the same old offense without trying to adapt to the talent they have. I think sometimes the willingness (or intellegence ) to adapt is overshadowed by ego or lack of coaching knowledge. I think I would enjoy coaching with you.

[MTSWNGRVSG]

It is easy to be wideopen when you are not the head coach!

[OZZIEOHIO]

Good Post.

[madpolecat]

I don't know if coach Davis called his own offense down there at P-East, but I have a lot of respect for the way they have done things offensively the past couple of years.

I love that double-wing offense that they have used lately. If nobody minds answering the question, are they doing more of a Hugh Wyatt or a Don Markham double-wing?

Two years ago, P-East had a 3rd and 12 against us late in the game, and I'll be darned if they didn't run that darned superpower play right at us and pick up 17 yards.

Great stuff.

[10mike]

Karl,

Are you leaning back towards the wing? I thought you had done went flexbone on us, especially considering that pretty little avatar you have there.

[hilltopkid]

In my opinion to be successful at a small school you have to be able to adjust to the talent of your team. You can't have a set offense or defense that you are going to run no matter what talent you have.

That statement is as true as it gets. Now, mind you, I may not have run the right things in some peoples opinion, but my first stint as a HC we ran 3 different offenses in 3 years. We went from the offset I w/ a lot of play action, to the power/wishbone, to the spread. The first year we had a decent line and hard-nosed RB's.It worked quite well 'till the QB got hurt.The second year we had decent lines and several very good backs.We ran the heck out of it and threw to the RB's out of the backfiled a lot.The last year we didn't have a really powerful line, but we did have an awesome RB and several skill kids. One thing I did learn from watching some of Coach D's old tapes, was to not be afraid to run unconventional offenses.The dreaded 64-62 2OT loss to Matewan is a perfect example. We were trying to tie the game.We lined up in the muddle 3 plays in a row and tied the game.They didn't honor our fade going right down the sidelines.I have to give a lot of credit to a D. Davis desciple though.Todd had a lot to do w/ that.
Speaking of muddle-huddle. It drives me nuts when people use this on PAT's but just go through the motions. Use the darn thing! The first game of my HC career we used it after the first 2 TD's b/c their linemen were lolly-gagging and did'nt shift over our linmen quick enough.Our Qb flipped it to the WB and he waltzed in-twice.If they don't honor an area or a man, teach your kids to attack that area and give them some freedom, but make sure you teach them how/when to do it.
I like your quote about coaches knowing it all. I learn something new, or several things every year.This will be my 17th year. Thats why I like going to clinics.If you can just pick up one thing from 1 speaker, it's worth it. For example, at the PHS clinic, the guys from Big Walnut, whom we play talked about their defense.It was THE most aggressive defense I've EVER seen at the HS level. They were D3 state champs. They ran a 3-4/5-2, very similar to what we run. They showed how they make a very simple personnel adjustment, w/out taking anyone off the field when someone is running the power off tackle or double TE. It's very simple, but something myaself and another def. coach never though of. We looked at each other and said "hmmm, theres our answer for what we were talking about on the way down here"
Nice Post Coach D.

[madpolecat]

10mike --

Just admiring the beauty of the thing...

Not committing to anything right now LOL.

[10mike]

IMO being able to make adjustments within your SYSTEM to fit your talent is the key to success. Learning an offensive system inside and out and thus getting it ingrained in their minds will allow kids the best possible chance to be successful at what they are doing. Making adjustments to your offense based on your talent is a must, but don't do it at the expense of execution.

[madpolecat]

Using 10mike's logic (which I believe is pretty sound), a lot of teams like the Wing-T because it has soooo much flexibility built into it as a system.

[ddavis]

If that works for you, fine. My opinion is based on what has worked for me. If you compare East to other small schools in our area we have not had the 10-20 game losing streaks like many of the other schools have had. I can remember early in my career that Valley went through a long losing streak. Green and Notre Dame have experienced these streaks also. We have avoided them. We have had some down seasons but we always find a way to win some games. We beat an Oak Hill team handily the year we used the muddle huddle and man for man they were probably better than us. The way Rusty Webb and I judge ourselves is, "did we beat somebody we shouldn't have beaten?". There are certain schools that anybody could win at using any offense or defense. The difference may be whether you win seven or ten games at those schools. I think sometimes coaches use certain offenses or defenses because that's all they know. On the other hand Ed Miller did what Ed Miller did year after year and was successful. It would have been foolish for him to change. I still say it depends on the situation you're in. I love to hear from coaches that they have no idea what to expect when they play us.

[10mike]

ddavis,

I am certainly not questioning your coaching logic as one would be foolish to do so based on your experience and success. I have already stated that I agree with your logic concerning making adjustments based on the talent that you have available to you. Again, my only point is that IMO running a SYSTEM offense, rather than dabbling back and forth between schemes, will allow you the best chance to succeed. Kids are more likely to properly execute an offense or defense that they have practiced in for multiple years because the information remains fresh in their minds. I guess it comes down to what KarlAgathon mentioned, which is choosing a system that is easily adaptable to any type of talent (veer, wing-t, double wing, etc.).

[Axe N Shield]

This is a little off the subject but a funny story concerning the "Double Wing" that we run at East last year!

We was on the field warming up before the game (Matewan) going thru various drills and several of the East coaches was huddled on the field watching our team going thru passing drills. At that time here came several of the Matewan coaches and their HC Yogi Kinder walking across the field. As they passed our staff we all exchanged the esteemed "Im a coach your a coach" ceremonial head nods and hand shakes! And, Coach Kinder said as he walked by; Why are you guys even warming up to throw the ball? We know your going to run right at us 9 out of 10 times! He laughed as he shook all of our hands! It's no secret! Darryl's gonna try and run it down our throats!

Man what a game that was! Coach Davis has run the ball more than he has ever passed; thats no secret to anybody! Yeah! It may not be as exciting to watch as the high flying passing attacks! But, we had one of the top productive offenses in the area and one of the top defenses! Have since then piled up 14 straight regular season game victorys!

I think one of Coach Davis's best coaching seasons was the 2006 SOC Championship Team! We finished 5-5 on the season and won the SOC! Especially the Green away game! Come back from a 22-6 lead and go into double overtime for the win and then puts us face-to-face with Rusty and a very mean Symmes Valley team. To me that was one of Coach D's best seasons coaching! And I played for him on his very first SOC championship team; his second year of coaching!

Three things happen when you throw the ball and two of them is bad for an offense! Plus... running the ball you can control the game and the clock; then its a matter of who is in better shape!

[RogueWarrior1965]

Next time I post I think I'll talk about some of our biggest wins since I've been coaching.

Of course I am partial, but I think when we beat Valley for the SOC in 1983 has to be one of the biggest wins in the history of East. That was East's first SOC in 20 years and the game was a dandy, with East winning 18-13. The winning TD was scored with a little over a minute to go. It was 4th and 1 from the 2 and we ran 45 Dive right down Valley's throat. That was a huge moment in time for Sciotoville and there were more people there than I have ever seen at an East game. There had to be 2,000+ people there. We tore the goal post down and then carried it over to Coach Davis' house the next day and put it up in his yard. Darryl...I am sure we have talked about this at one time or another, but that had to be one heck of a surprise when you got back in town that weekend to have the goal post in your yard!

Another big win was the 8-6 victory over Minford in 1983 at Minford. That was a classic because we did all of our pre-game in Sciotoville and then hopped on the bus for the ride to Minford and got there just in time for the game. EVERYONE was freaking out wondering where we were. That was classic.

We also had a big win against Green in 1982. They were 3rd in the computer polls (back when there was just A, AA, and AAA) and we beat them 21-6 at home for our homecoming.

A lot of good memories. I can only imagine the memories from coaching 20+ years at the same school. What is it.....5 SOC titles (83, 91, 94, 06 and 07)? Quite a legacy there, Coach.

[ddavis]

Dang Warrior. You took some of my thunder. Yes, those were great victories. I'm running late now so I'll cover this topic more tomorrow. Heck, I don't think I'm always right. I thought we were suppose to debate a little. Tomorrow I'm also going to discuss what I think we do best at East. I spent two hours writing a few paragraphs last night and lost it because I took so long. Of course, my wife says why don't you write on word and cut and paste. Hilltop, I have the dreaded dumb jock disease too. Shield, Yogi was right wasn't he? But we might pass. 10mike. there's merit to what you say. Now I'm real late.

[california kid]

Axe N Shield

Especially the Green away game! Come back from a 22-6 lead and go into double overtime for the win

such a heartbreaker green would of won the soc if they wouldn't have lost that game

[MTSWNGRVSG]

Man, I am about to put something on here that makes me think there must have been something in the air on that night. There was a night about 20 years ago that you did put the ball in the air. The two teams combined for 80 points and over 750 yards of total offense. I do not think the other coached expected you put it up that much that night. If I remember both teams took pride in their defense but it did not show up that night.

[ddavis]

mtswngrvsg' I remember the game well. You had a very good team that year and we were lucky to have won. Morris Gullion was our offensive coordinator that year. For an ex stud running back Morris likes the pass. I can't say we would have won the game if I had been calling plays. Those are the kind of things you never know. Just like after a close loss you say, "what if I had done this?". Who knows? That was the kind of game you appreciate later, I think. I'm sure it was a tough loss at the moment. You were always a first class opponent and the friendships that I have developed with people like you over the years makes me a very lucky man. How many people can say that they've lived their childhood dream and can list many of their former adversaries as their friends. "Lifes been good to me" Joe Walsh.

[ddavis]

I'm back. I went to the sleep clinic last night. I learned from Jim Smith not to announce publicly when you're not going to be home. I also had my briefcase stolen recently so I'm a little cautious with my trust. Imagine that!

R.W. I had forgotten about that Minford win. Sometimes things like we did that night have more of a positive effect on your team as they do a negative effect on your opponent. As an intelligent mature man you still remember that move. It probably had a much more of a positive effect on our team than I ever realized. I have gotten away from things like that and maybe I need to be more like that young guy you remember. As I've said. You keep on learning. That Valley win was a great win for us. AS you said that was our first championship since the 1963 co-championship and 1960 individual championship. Coach Crabtree from Valley was on that Valley team and I'm sure if he had a chance he'd remind us that our winning drive was set up by a roughing the punter call. The thing I have found is when you have good seasons you usually have a little luck and on down seasons there seems to be an absence of luck. I guess it balances out in the end. I can remember talking to Paul Miller (the Valley coach) sometime after the game and him telling me how surprised he was when the Valley fans carried in that coffin with "East" written on it. Paul wasn't delighted with his fans actions. He knew as well as I did that it's not wise to give an opponent extra motivation. Paul is another fine man that I've had the pleasure to get to know through coaching.****The Green game you mentioned really fits "old fashion football". I think we had been running an I pro offense and struggling through a poor season. That week we went to a fullhouse T backfield and pounded off tackle all night. We didn't make mistakes and we didn't turn the ball over. That game probably had as much effect on me as a young coach as any. It also helped us believe we could win and the next year we went out and proved it. There are many other great East wins that I hope to mention in the future. This may push back some of the other topics I was wanting to discuss. Cheers everyone.

[tabibeeto]

We beat an Oak Hill team handily the year we used the muddle huddle and man for man they were probably better than us.

Yeah I know I was the QB of that Oak Hill Team we just couldnt line up with your athletes we had very untalented and weak DE's and LB's.That was embarrassing.