SOC 2 all conference team

[Incognito]

I agree. I am a Minford supporter and have been close to the program for many years. Coach Martin is a great coach and an even better person. But i do not think he derserves COY. Like was previously stated Estep guided his team to an undefeated SOC record and a trip to Columbus.Also, Russel not on the 1st team is a joke. Likewise Armstrong not making the SOC squad at all is BS. Armstrong controlled the basepaths reminscent of Brandon White. A few Minford players also were left off that I feel should have been on there but thats how it goes. Its mostly politics and what your last name is. I dont look to much into these awards, They are nice to have but I would rather take a State Championship ring anyday. Btw Good Luck Burg in Columbus show'em how us southern hillfolk can play.

[RogueWarrior1965]

Now to the good stuff. Can someone please explain to me how in the hell is Martin from Minford the SOC II coach of the year? Trust me, I know he is a great coach and a great guy, but someone is going to have to convince me that he is the best coach in the league this year.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that the coach of the year criteria should NOT only rely only on wins and losses. You need to look at the person and what he or she does for the team, the school, and the conference. Few of you probably know this, but guess who worked with Burg's pitching staff in the off season? Wanna guess? Tim Martin. Not many coaches would dedicate the time and effort to work with the very kids you know you will be competing against come spring time. Yet Tim did this, knowing darn good and well he was making Burg a better team in the process. Dean Schuler does the same thing on the hitting side. Taking it a step further, Tim works with kids from Scioto County to Chillicothe and everywhere in between to help them play at the next level. How many coaches take the time to do that?

Also, before anyone wants to take a jab at a coach for losses, you need to understand something. You cannot coach heart and desire. In the games Minford lost this year, the kids lost the game....not the coach, due to how lax they came out for the game. You should not have to pump up your players for games like Burg, Adena, and Zane Trace, but the kids were flat for all those games. When you have senior ballplayers that show a lack of discipline at the plate, blow things such as bunt defenses, etc. after having FUNDAMENTAL baseball drilled into their brains since little league and jr. high, that is not the coach's fault. Bottom line, as I stated in the 2nd sentence above, you cannot teach or coach heart and desire....you either have it or you don't.

Now, that I am off my soap box, I am not going to argue that Michael Estep is not worthy of the COY, but if I am not mistaken, the coaches vote on the COY. Who knows who is deserving of the COY better than them? Not to mention the voting would have occurred prior to Burg advancing to State.

In regards to players, I am not sure how all the teams do this, but Minford's players voted for who would represent the team on the SOC all conference teams. Also, the number of "slots" per team is determined by where you finish in the league (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.). Unfortunately, that means some players that may be worthy of being on the 1st team end up being 2nd team. This happened to Farmer at Minford, but he made first team all-district, which is what really matters. SOC is nice, but district and State are better.

Now that I have rambled on for 4 paragraphs, I think Tim Martin IS worthy of COY for what he accomplished above and beyond the wins and losses (24-6 and District Runner-Up is still pretty good by the way). He is a great coach, an even better person, and does more for the SOC and southern Ohio baseball than most will ever know. Congrats to Coach Martin and all the players on the all-SOC team for their accomplishments.

[Burg_Grad_77]

I agree with you that Tim Martin is one hell of a coach and is obviously also one hell of a great guy because as you mentioned he will help anyone who asks for his assistance. I knew that he had helped the Burg pitchers during the offseason and I highly commend him for that because that shows great character and his love of the game to help one of your opponents pitching staff knowing you will have to face them at least twice in the season.

Now to answer your question, yes I think the COY should be determined by the wins and losses in the conference. Minford lost 3 conference games while the Burg went undefeated and beat Minford twice, so Estep had the upper hand and should have been the COY. How many times in the past 35 years can you tell me when the coach that wins the league wasn't voted the COY? The only other instance I can recall was last year when Gary Bailey led the Lady Pirates to an undefeated season and wasn't chosen and it was given to another coach who lost 2 or 3 game conference games. Like you said, the coaches vote for the COY and should be ashamed of themselves for slighting Michael Estep. I guess if you can't beat him or his team on the field then stick it to him in the league voting.

It's all political and it's all BS. Leaving Russell off the first team is another joke. The best pitcher in the league is put on the second team????

Let's see, undefeated in conference, 29-1 overall, District and Regional champions(by knocking off the #1 team in the state). I'd say that's a pretty impressive resume as well for Mr Estep.

[alabama mike]

Dean and Tim both work with any player during the off season. Any parent who is willing to pay for the instruction will get top quality lessons. The reason Coach Estep does not work with Burg players is because the administration at Burg will not allow it to happen. (Long story) In fact, Estep has been told point blank he cannot work with the players by giving personal instruction. The BOE is to blame for allowing this to happen, plain and simple. They, (BOE) could put a stop to this injustice if someone would speak up. So, to make a long stroy short, there is a reason Coach Estep does not work with the Burg players during the off season.

[RogueWarrior1965]

So, to make a long stroy short, there is a reason Coach Estep does not work with the Burg players during the off season.

Please don't think I was slighting anyone because of who does and does not work with their players because I was not. I was just stating there is more to COY than wins and losses and was substantiating my point (not that I probably needed to since many probably already knew that).

Knowing the caliber of coaches in SOC II, I sincerely doubt there was a conspiracy against Estep because Burg ran the table in the SOC. I am sure many will feel there was an injustice and then there are some that don't. For that, we will just have to agree to disagree. As I mentioned before, it is unfortunate how the Ws and Ls determine how many slots a team has on the first team and second team, but that is just the way it is. That's why you will see some of the guys on the 2nd team making first team all-district (which is where they belong). Trust me, I can relate because it happened to me. I made 2nd team all soc, but then Class A all-district first team, and ultimately all-ohio in Class A. Conversely, I had a teammate that made all soc first team, but nothing above district. It is what it is and the awards at district and state carry more weight.

[burggrad82]

Congrads to all the boys that made 1st and 2nd team you all deserved it. I would like to thank all of you that have shown support for Jordan he reads these posts and it means alot to him that you feel passionate about his selection. Adam you deserve POY I can't think of anyone that played a hard as you did. AS for the coach of the year I think that was a great choice because he's my pick too. I feel posting my opinion would be better served at a later date due to the importance of this comming weekends games. Go burg win it all.

[yabbadabbadoo]

The word on the street is that Estep will be named District and State coach 0f the year in the next few weeks.

How big of a slap to the face to the league will that be. He can win district and state coach, but not his own league COY. What a joke.

I'm sure someone will take this the wrong way, but if Martin is such a great coach and instills heart and desire in the kids, why is that in the 31-1 loss to the Burg, he basically quit coaching in the 2nd inning, sitting on a bucket at the end of the dugout until the game was over. He was even quoted in the paper as saying he was absolutely miserable during that game and couldn't wait until it was over. Is that what you want to teach the kids, to just give up. At the time, the game wasn't completely out of reach. IMO he should have been coaching his tail off right up until the very end. That was also the game that after the rightfielder misplayed a couple of balls, he yanked him in the middle of the inning. How about waiting until the inning is over instead of embarrassing the kid in front of his family and friends.

Like was said, it is great that he works with kids from other teams in the off-season, but I don't think that is what the COY is based on. It was a bad choice and sad that Estep didn't even get nominated for the honor.

[bulkmove]

The coach of the year should be given not only for wins and losses but the one who does the best with promoting the game of baseball inside the community of Scioto County. Also the one who does well with the hand they have been dealt. Does Coach Martin deserve credit? That is a every person's opinion. Obviously some say yes and some say no. Yet, besides the two, should others be eliminated for the award because of less talent??? Should this award go to the coach with the most talent, best record, or to a coach who had a good year with the talent he had?

Does the West coaches deserve credit for the "major" change in attitude in their program? Again, some will say yes and some say no. Should Valley's staff get credit for the season they had with the talent that was there? What about Waverly?? In two years that team went from getting beat alot to competing with the top two (Minford and Burg) and finishing third in the league. What about Oak Hill or South Webster who are Division IV competing in the league? Are they not worthy because they have far fewer kids to choose from for baseball, and yet still compete in the strongest league in Southeastern Ohio? Should Coach Martin be given COY for losing to Burg 31-1 because he sat on a bucket (which he does if they are up 4-3)? Or should Coach Estepp be given COY for practicing his players during a game while the "second string" played in a game (not saying it is right or wrong, but odd)?

Burg is by far the best overall team in Southeastern Ohio, and now the region. They have great kids and wonderful talent. Coach Estepp is deserving of the COY award with the undefeated record in league. However, these teams in the SOC play each other twice and know each other pretty good. With the talent that some of the other coaches had and the success they had, more than one deserve this award.

If you want a change, then get rid of coach of the year and make it Coach of the Champion SOC II award. That way everyone knows that the team that wins the league will get the COY. Would that make it fair for everyone?

[BULDOG]

How about Co-Coach of the year. Both are derserving of the award.

Just saw the SOC selections and for the most part I agree with the selections as Wamsley was by far the best player in the league. I also believe that Russell deserves a 1st team award as well as he was a 1st teamer last season and had just as good of a year this year. He is a huge part of Wheelersburg success and one of the top pitchers in SE Ohio.

I am not saying that the others aren't deserving as well and Burg has more than 5 that deserve the award but the limit is 5. I do not evny Coach Estep for trying to present these players knowing that for some they will not be recognized for their contributions due to these limitations. I did hear that Burg had 6 or 7 of the 9 hitting above .400 and several of the 2nd teamers were well above .400 on the season.

Take Spencer Hall for example. He is by far the best DH in the league and has carried Burg on his back in more than a couple games this season with key hits/rbis when the game was tight.

It is a shame that the league and area coaches put a limit on these awards. I have stated before that why does there have to be a fixed limit? If the coaches are voting and are reasonable they will come up with the best players.

Anyway, congrats to all that were awarded All Conference in SOC 1 and SOC 2 and to those that did not receive recognition but were a vital part of a teams success.

[yabbadabbadoo]

So, to make a long stroy short, there is a reason Coach Estep does not work with the Burg players during the off season.

Please don't think I was slighting anyone because of who does and does not work with their players because I was not. I was just stating there is more to COY than wins and losses and was substantiating my point (not that I probably needed to since many probably already knew that).

Knowing the caliber of coaches in SOC II, I sincerely doubt there was a conspiracy against Estep because Burg ran the table in the SOC.

I don't conspiracy is the word you want to use. I would say jealousy would be a better. From what I heard, he wasn't even nominated for the COY. How is that possible?

Yeah, I agree with that it is not just based on wins an losses in the league, but other intangibles as well, but like Bama Mike said, you can't blame Estep for not being able to work with his kids in the off season becaus the BOE won't let him. Like was said, it's not like Martin and any of the others are doing this for free. I'm sure these kids parents are shelling out some bucks for the workouts.

[RogueWarrior1965]

I don't conspiracy is the word you want to use. I would say jealousy would be a better. From what I heard, he wasn't even nominated for the COY. How is that possible?

Yeah, I agree with that it is not just based on wins an losses in the league, but other intangibles as well, but like Bama Mike said, you can't blame Estep for not being able to work with his kids in the off season becaus the BOE won't let him.

I don't think anyone blames Estep or would slight him because the BOE is being hard headed. As for the jealousy part....come on....Dean Schuler is a Hall of Fame coach and I can assure you he is not jealous. Tim Martin will be a HoF coach someday as well and is well on his way to 200+ wins, not to mention he played professionally, so ditto there. I don't know much about the other's, but from what I have seen and heard, I would not call it jealousy. 95% of the people will never know what Tim Martin has done for kids all across the county (and outside of it) and for southern Ohio baseball. Part of the 5% that do know what he has done are the coaches that selected him as COY.

At this point, can people show some class and at least congratulate the man on his accomplishment?

[Derf_W]

Well it sounds to me like if the Minford coach teaches kids from other teams to make them better and he was a professional athlete in baseball and helps them get to them next level some of the teams better not bite the hand that feeds them. Also, doesn't this guy let the American legion team from Portsmouth use his field? Sounds to me like he's a great guy for the Scioto county area to have around.

[BULDOG]

Coach Martin is well deserving of this award. He is a great person, loves baseball and helps anyone willing to work on their game.

I do think that Coach Estep is deserving of the award as well.

Either one would be a good choice if not both.

[RogueWarrior1965]

Also, doesn't this guy let the American legion team from Portsmouth use his field? Sounds to me like he's a great guy for the Scioto county area to have around.

YES, he does. He sure does not have to either as the only benefit he gets from it is working on his tan as he cuts the grass to make sure it is ready for game days.

[volsfan]

I'll make this short and sweet, I agree with most of what is being said, and congratulate all of the players that were awarded SOC Team picks. Glad to see Wamsley voted POY. When Burg raises that State Trophy after the game on Sat, believe me, none of this is gonna matter.

Common Sense would tell us all, that you can't and shouldn't charge players or potential players in your school or on your team at your own school for private lessons. Even before the BOE made the rule my boys always went to Dean or Tim for hitting/pitching, but if they needed Coach Estep to work with them, all they had to do is ask and he would do it for free. So Coach Estep can work with his own players, BUT he can't and shouldn't charge them. He may not have the extra time like he had before, because his family has increased over the past few years, which does not allow for it, so you may be misinterpreting that the BOE will not allow him to have any contact in the off season, with him not having the time anymore. Is a conflict of interest for him when it comes to cuts, etc. That is in the past, they do not allow the football, softball or basketball, etc coach to charge for private lessons, so why would they allow it for baseball.

Players know each others talents whether it is on their team or not, so an award is not necessary when you keep that in mind. Never ever had a college coach ask Brandon or Bryan if they got this or that award, they just watched them play ball and liked what they seen, bottom line. Usually it is us parents that get more upset than the players anyway.

[baseballfanatic]

I have coached baseball for the past fifteen years and the only thing I was really concerned about at any level of the game was were the kids learning life lessons that would help them in their futures, ie: accepting defeat with heads high, victory happily, but not arrrogantly, playing as a team, becoming leaders, being dedicated to the game, and respecting their elders (coaches,umpires). The only other thing I want my kids, whomI have coached is to someday say, " Yes, I can do that because Coach Haislop taught me how to handle that kind of thing when I was in little league, pony league, high school, American Legion Baseball...man he was a good coach". That is what coaches should aim for in their coaching tenures; not whether they are coach of the year or not. That is not why one should be coaching; if it is then you need to stop now!

Not to mention this particular post is about SOC II All Conference Team, not All Conference Coaches

[bushmaster24]

i agree that it is hard to understand how this was voted on . coach estep gets my nod. coach martin is a good coach for what he knows pitching. when Danials and sutton left there was a big drop off in the team,fundamentals player position on the field on certian pitches if they dont find a bench coach to help next year it is going to be ugly in minford. by the way go burg in state playoffs.from minford..

[RogueWarrior1965]

Never ever had a college coach ask Brandon or Bryan if they got this or that award, they just watched them play ball and liked what they seen, bottom line. Usually it is us parents that get more upset than the players anyway.

Man, I have a co-worker I wish would read this. She is beside herself because her son may not be captain this coming year. I have told her over and over, college coaches could care less if they were the captain of the team, POY or whatever. It is based on their talent, what the coaches see (if they like what they see) and if the prospect fits into their program. I did not think that had changed in the 24-25 years since I was recruited, but it is nice to know the world is still round.

[yabbadabbadoo]

After thinking about what I had posted earlier on this thread, I want to offer my apologies to any that was offended.

I also want to offer my congratulations to Coach Martin for being named COY, but after thinking about that, my take is that there shouldn't just be one coach named as all of the coaches of these teams all do an outstanding job, not ony with their team but also within the community. With the way some parents act these days if something doesn't go there way with "Little Johnny" I have to stand up and applaud all of the fine men and women coaches that are out there today. I don't think I could do it as I coached one year of pee-wee basketball and while I loved working with the kids, it was the parents who left a bad taste in my mouth. Coaches are chosen to be on the field or court for a reason. There job is to teach our youth not only sportsmanship, but also strong character and how to act towards adult. When the adults can't even do that it makes it that much tougher for the coaches.

Ladies and gentlemen, my hat is off to you all.

[Foolsgold]

I think both schools should be very proud of their respective coaches. Not just for their successes but the obvious devotion to their teams and most importantly to the kids that play for them. I think co-coach of the year would have been a nice touch.

That being said could someone please fire one of them and banish them to Oak Hill. It’s been so long since Oak Hill has had any resemblance of a coach.