WK 1 Caldwell @ Federal Hocking

[g w mclintock]

Okay I've held back long enough...

Orestes is officially now an idiot. I can't believe what I just read. If this is another attempt by you to fire people up, it worked. You know who I am, I know who you are. You should go back to watching Seinfield reruns and don't bother talking to me anymore. You could make a difference with your coaching but obviously you have not and will not accept the responsibility of helping people. Sadly, you had so much potential...

As for Freethrow, I have tried to ingnore your posts but now I'm done with that too. I'm not sure who you are (but I have an idea) and you do know who I am. I see no need to communicate with you any further.

Sorry if this offends you guys but hey that's life. You are both big boys and you can take care of yourselves...

I'm sure I will see both of you in the future at FH games. Let's avoid any conversation.

Bob Springer is a quality guy. Neither one of you played for him or had any kids play for him. I would bet that neither one of you has had more than a 5 minute conversation with the man.

The lesson that Bob Springer gave to the kids of our district in this situation,that you are both so worried about is this:
The message given (when true and serious) is more important than the messenger or how the message is delivered. eventhough there are consequences for each. And if something or somebody is important to you, then stand up for it/them.

Your shortsidedness of "how to talk to you boss" reflects the shallow world you live in and underestimates the ability of your "boss" to recognize a problem. Since neither of you are a "boss", (and I am) you don't understand the management skill - - - filter out the delivery (eventhough you don't like it) and identify the true issue.

Our school board got the message and responded. It took some longer to flip than others due to personal agendas, but in the end they did what was right and displayed the management skill mentioned above.

You boys missed this one big time. C'ya.

[freethrow]

I don't know about the other guy/gal but I'm in management and have been for over 20 years so that makes me a boss also. Any employee under me would be fired on the spot if he/she talked to me in that way, period. The guy may be great but that doesn't give him the right to talk to a boss that way. He should have done it in a more business like approach not using profanity as the paper mentioned. Can you imagine what would have happened if a student would have went to the super or the principal and told them what this adult did? They would probably been expelled or at least suspended for a while. I guess only people from Federal Hocking are allowed to express their thoughts on this site. You are wrong about another thing, I have no clue who you are except a guy/gal that is a Lancers fan. I do wish the kids at Federal Hocking well and good luck. I hope they can ignore all the silly issues going on at the school and excel in the class room and on the field. You also will not see me at any Federal Hocking games.
I will not comment on this issue any further. Good luck to the Lancers this year.

[Orestes]

Bob Springer may be an overall good individual, but I know for a fact that he was "misleading" in terms of his accomplishments and positions held as a coach at South. His info given from his mouth was reported in the media, was then pointed out by others as being false, and was then subsequently corrected.

I do not know the man outside of a couple very short small-talk situations. However, I am very close to someone who worked with him for some time. The initial impression of him was very good. The final impression was bad. There is no need to drag the reason onto the forum, but they leave no doubt, and the feelings are widely shared.

GW, you have obviously had great experiences with him, as has your son. It will give you one perspective. I have also heard other stories from someone I would trust more than anyone else on this earth who experienced him from a different view. It gives me my perspective. If that is enough for you to hate me, so be it. You won't be the first or the last.

However, of all people who should feel justified in doing what he did, it would be you. Yet, even without the threat of actual consequences, you bit your tongue, and it was impressive. Apparently, you hold yourself to higher standards.

Again, I have absolutely zero problem with there being a confrontation. That was likely well-deserved. It is the way in which that confrontation was presented that should have been punished with at least a suspension. At what point is the "presentation of the message" going too far? Does it take physical violence, or should the root of the violence still be found, with the act going unpunished? I may have a problem with a prof, and may be in the process of being treated unfairly. God knows they go out of their way to stump you publicly anyway. However, my options would be to 1)discuss it privately and respectfully with the prof, then if the behavior does not change 2) take the problem up with student affairs. Once my reaction turns to a profanity-laced tongue lashing, strong forms discipline would be taken against me. There are many ways to make a point, and to stand up for beliefs, but some of them involve "martyrdom" ...unless of course you have influential supporters. A total firing may be extreme, but a suspension would have been justified IMO, especially considering that this type of language is a "staple" of the Springer practice.

I think the student-athletes should be taught the difference, and yet, it is no surprise that coaches are talked back to and cursed at by players because of a supposed injustice (right or wrong). Whether you are right or wrong in believing you have been "screwed" it makes no difference, because in your mind you have been. So the kid that curses and quits a team because of playing time or positioning in the lineup would just be standing up against injustice. They are always watching and are taking mental notes.

[JayKay]

At the school board meeting both individuals were given an opportunity to speak and apologize, Bob Springer was the only one man enough to do so. Patsey's comment was "I have no comment at this time". Now how is that for being a leader? This was his opportunity to show the community and school district (and more importantly the boys) what he's made of. If he felt Springer was in the wrong to the degree that it warranted his dismissal, then explain that to this group of young men. He didn't care enough about the boys' feelings to even discuss it. Springer's delivery might have been too abrupt, but his concerns are valid and his delivery simply shows his frustrations. These players deserve clean facilities! That is what is getting lost in the scuttle.

[Orestes]

At the school board meeting both individuals were given an opportunity to speak and apologize, Bob Springer was the only one man enough to do so. Patsey's comment was "I have no comment at this time". Now how is that for being a leader? This was his opportunity to show the community and school district (and more importantly the boys) what he's made of. If he felt Springer was in the wrong to the degree that it warranted his dismissal, then explain that to this group of young men. He didn't care enough about the boys' feelings to even discuss it. Springer's delivery might have been too abrupt, but his concerns are valid and his delivery simply shows his frustrations. These players deserve clean facilities! That is what is getting lost in the scuttle.

You are right. I am by no means taking Patsey's side in all of this. I just felt like some form of reprimand would have been reasonable and expected. The firing may have been over the top though. While the substance of the argument was valid, the delivery should have been more collected and respectful. The reasons for Springer's outburst should have been considered, but the way in which it was delivered should have been punished. It's just my opinion, especially when I attach it to other profanity-laced outbursts toward other coaches that did not even occur during the heat of a game. It seems to be a pattern of behavior, that is unacceptable.

Also, I will fully admit that I have acted irresponsibly in the past where I should have been punished by the school. Was the source of my outburst justified? I, along with many others, believe so. Was my delivery uncalled for and worthy of punishment? Absolutely.

[JayKay]

I disagree that Bob Springer should be punished for telling Patsey to get off his rear and clean up the school. I will agree his wording was harsh, but our boys deserve clean facilities. And sadly, they have gone unkempt for far too long. I've heard at least one board member thought his letter was "disrespectful". I disagree with that assessment. I read the letter. Now let's move on to football and Friday night. GOOD LUCK LANCERS! You have an entire community behind you.

Heard there will be tailgating Friday night, beginning at 6 pm. Hope to see everyone there. Be sure to wear maroon/gold in support of the Lancers!

[Steely Dan]

I've stayed out of this for the most part, and have just a few comments to make about what has transpired.

I agree with jaykay, there was nothing disrespectful here. It was blunt, but it was not personal. Bob Springer did not say anything insulting, disparaging, or anything about anyone's Momma.........

I was at the meeting and saw the events unfold. If you weren't there, your comments about the entire matter are based on second or third hand information, and you know what this is worth.

Prefacing a conversation with the phrase "I want to talk to you man-to-man" means the following:

1) You probably are not going to like what I'm going to say,
2) It is not going to be sugarcoated, and
3) It means that it is off the record

The instant when this was said, Mr. Patsey could have said that he did not want to engage in the conversation and move on. Both parties involved were wrong, and both need to be accountable for their actions in this matter.

I've managed people, work for a very large company, and have experienced first hand much worse in terms of what is spoken, from both a subordinate and from a manager perspective. To say you would have fired someone on the spot, is in my opinion, naive. Good luck with that if you think you can get away with it.

We used to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

We now live in the land of the aggrieved and the home of the offended........

[Orestes]

Is the letter the only thing being discussed here? I thought there was much more than that involved in this situation. I was not referring to the letter in any of my posts.


Edit: My source would be second-hand, obviously since I was not watching the event in question, but it is not as if I am running on info from family members based on what they "heard." What I "heard" would most definitely deserve punishment of some kind, and would also not be uncharacteristic considering the stories I heard from an adult about last season. Running down players with profanity-laced outbursts is one thing. Talking to a coach in that manner is another. However, the coach is more forgiving than I, and considers it water under the bridge. What the stories from last season did do was 1) leave a bitter taste in my mouth 2) make the Patsy-related story I was told all that much more believable.

I would have plenty to spill about this in a PM.

[JayKay]

No this isn't just about the letter. But the board did state that Bob Springer was to apologize and rescind his letter. So it seemed to be an issue to the board.

Patsey does need to get off his ignorant high horse and take a look around. The school grounds were unkept, trash was laying around and the locker rooms are unforgiveable. Even a board member stated at the meeting that the locker rooms were "pathetic" and thanked Bob for bringing it to his attention.

If you have a problem with Springer - I suggest you go to him "man to man" and discuss it. I'm sure Bob would welcome hearing your concerns instead of you getting on here and making insinuations.

[Orestes]

I have no reason to confront him "man to man." 1) I don't have time to make the 13 hour trip 2) Nothing about him has any influence on the outcome or comfort of my life and 3) the person I was offended for is no longer disgruntled. Why bring up old stories that are now "under the bridge" to those involved, especially when it does not directly concern me? I brought all of this up to bring attention to my point that this is not an isolated incident, and to argue my stance. It would be as if a story came out about me verbally abusing an umpire or judge over a decision, and I was let off the hook entirely. Then, someone gets on this board or another forum and brings up my past "verbal lashings" to umpires. It doesn't mean that person has a total problem with me. It just means he sees a pattern in my behavior, which is very relevant to this discussion and to a possible punishment.

I couldn't care any less about his existence or about the fact that he is a coach at FH. I just thought the board compromised too much, and should have merely lessened the punishment. It was just an opinion, and I am happy that he is still coaching as long as the players are happy. I just hope the players decide to handle their own "injustices" in a more responsible manner.

I understand the poor conditions at the facilities, and I understand the effort some have put forth in order to better them. However, I still do not think it is ok to use any means to get to the desired ends. It is still ok to not totally support someone who took the stance you have been waiting for, if the stance was taken in an improper manner. Just supporting any stance that goes against one's poor conditions is how Che Guevara ended up being a cultural icon.

[PLEASANTFLYER]

lancers win one for their coach. 6-0

[Steely Dan]

Back on track.......

Fed Hock squeaks by in this one,

FH 14

Caldwell 12

[Orestes]

Caldwell has had FH's number, and FH has been sluggish out of the gate. However, FH has the players and coaches to win a lot of games. They just have to pull it all together. I'm going to say Caldwell by 13, but as the season goes along, FH becomes a team no one in the Hocking wants to deal with...... I hope to be wrong about the first half of my statement.

[JayKay]

Lancers by 6. This group of young men are fired up and ready to play football. Best of luck to Albert and his crew.

[Lancer_Fan]

Lets go LANCERS!!!

[orange-n-brown 365]

fed hock 7 caldwell 6 at the end of 3rd I got from WSEO

[orange-n-brown 365]

just heard Fed Hoc 26 caldwell 6 or 7

[g w mclintock]

just heard Fed Hoc 26 caldwell 6 or 7

That score is incorrect. Caldwell was up by a bunch when I left the game.

[Goldengonzo]

Do we have an official score yet? Any stats?

[Steely Dan]

32 - 7 is the final, Caldwell wins.

Nice team for Coach Devol to return to, good luck the rest of the year in the PVC. Caldwell should fare pretty well this year in the PVC.

Lots of mistakes for both teams, but the Lancer mistakes were more critical.

I see a long week of practice ahead, and some hitting and tackling drills in their future.