A Must Read for Coal Grove Fans...

[LetItBe]

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[cghornet10]

So the "establishment" getting Lucas to come back to the Grove in '05 doesn't count as going outside of the village?

[Westfan]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that the days when you could line up and just rely on being bigger and stronger than opponents to win games is far gone, and it ain't coming back, neither. Yes, powerlifting is probably 25-30% of being a good ball player. But you have to have more than one aspect of the game packed down. I've seen it time and time again, Coal Grove loses ball games to descent teams like Minford by a score or two, when if you look at the athletes, they're completely even. I don't care who says what... THAT style of football (40 rushes for 100 yds, 2-9 passing for 6 yds and a INT) requires good athletes to play 5 times harder to be in a game at the 4th quarter. Coal Grove, if you're content with 6-4 every year and beating every cupcake on your schedule and losing to every descent team (and I have given you all proof of that) then go ahead and continue to play that way.

you may be right, but West played the same style and went 11-1. West beat Minford handily and I'm not sure they completed any passes.

And Your point is ???

Point is he's saying you can't win football games against good teams relying on running the football, and he used loosing to Minford as an example. Although I agree against really good teams you need to mix it up, football is still about execution. Well coached teams execute. It isn't about the scheme you run, but whether you run it correctly and it always comes down the the Jimmy and the Joes. Talent wins football games. Talent with execution wins alot of games.

[LetItBe]

So the "establishment" getting Lucas to come back to the Grove in '05 doesn't count as going outside of the village?

After he'd been there from the mid-70's till the late 90's, I think not.
You'd think that people from the Grove would look back at history see that good things happen when people from the "outside" come in.... Lucas being a living example.

[fuzzhead]

After reading some of these posts, it has become crystal clear that I'd better just steer clear of this thread....

[2trap_4ever]

The problem is complacency. People in Coal Grove are actually satisfied with mediocrity. All that seems to matter to them is beating OVC teams. Should we be surprised? After all, folks in the Grove don't even bother to look outside their own village, so I guess expecting to actually compete with teams from outside the county would be a tough task, indeed. There is a silent dissent among Coal Grove fans. Many of fans who criticize Big Dad behind his back are the same ones who suck up to him so their kid will find favor with him. It is the height of hypocracy.

Then you don't know the Grove very well, I can take being Co-Champs two years in a row, but I as many Grove fans want more, we want playoffs, we want to be the better teams on our schedule but to steal a quote, "Rome wasn't built in a day", the Grove football program was completley destroyed after Lucas was forced out, and it will take some time to get it back to were it was, but that time is coming and we have gotten better each year, there are some factors that coaching can't help, speed being one of them, it's no secrect we are not a speed team, that needs to change but you can't coach speed.

[dragoncoach56]

After reading some of these posts, it has become crystal clear that I'd better just steer clear of this thread....

You really are a smart guy Fuzz

[Tigercannon71]

The problem is complacency. People in Coal Grove are actually satisfied with mediocrity. All that seems to matter to them is beating OVC teams. Should we be surprised? After all, folks in the Grove don't even bother to look outside their own village, so I guess expecting to actually compete with teams from outside the county would be a tough task, indeed. There is a silent dissent among Coal Grove fans. Many of fans who criticize Big Dad behind his back are the same ones who suck up to him so their kid will find favor with him. It is the height of hypocracy.

Then you don't know the Grove very well, I can take being Co-Champs two years in a row, but I as many Grove fans want more, we want playoffs, we want to be the better teams on our schedule but to steal a quote, "Rome wasn't built in a day", the Grove football program was completley destroyed after Lucas was forced out, and it will take some time to get it back to were it was, but that time is coming and we have gotten better each year, there are some factors that coaching can't help, speed being one of them, it's no secrect we are not a speed team, that needs to change but you can't coach speed.

Exactly.

[LetItBe]

Then you don't know the Grove very well, I can take being Co-Champs two years in a row, but I as many Grove fans want more, we want playoffs, we want to be the better teams on our schedule but to steal a quote, "Rome wasn't built in a day", the Grove football program was completley destroyed after Lucas was forced out, and it will take some time to get it back to were it was, but that time is coming and we have gotten better each year, there are some factors that coaching can't help, speed being one of them, it's no secrect we are not a speed team, that needs to change but you can't coach speed.

I would argue that even if you had speed it wouldn't be utilized. It's always been like that - take your workhorse back and pound away at the opposing team with a big o-line. nothing special. no secrets. Everyone knows how to stop Coal Grove - Fairland has done it two years in a row to perfection, making the Hornet offensive scheme (if you can even call it a scheme) look pitifully futile.
On defense, it's painfully obvious that the defensive backs have absolutely no clue how to defend a pass. Do they even watch game film on their upcoming opponents? It sure doesn't look like it. Being an outsider, I wouldn't have the faintest idea. But I watch Coal Grove play at least twice a year (most of the time more because I have relatives from there) and nothing has changed, really.

[2trap_4ever]

Then you don't know the Grove very well, I can take being Co-Champs two years in a row, but I as many Grove fans want more, we want playoffs, we want to be the better teams on our schedule but to steal a quote, "Rome wasn't built in a day", the Grove football program was completley destroyed after Lucas was forced out, and it will take some time to get it back to were it was, but that time is coming and we have gotten better each year, there are some factors that coaching can't help, speed being one of them, it's no secrect we are not a speed team, that needs to change but you can't coach speed.

I would argue that even if you had speed it wouldn't be utilized. It's always been like that - take your workhorse back and pound away at the opposing team with a big o-line. nothing special. no secrets. Everyone knows how to stop Coal Grove - Fairland has done it two years in a row to perfection, making the Hornet offensive scheme (if you can even call it a scheme) look pitifully futile.
On defense, it's painfully obvious that the defensive backs have absolutely no clue how to defend a pass. Do they even watch game film on their upcoming opponents? It sure doesn't look like it. Being an outsider, I wouldn't have the faintest idea. But I watch Coal Grove play at least twice a year (most of the time more because I have relatives from there) and nothing has changed, really.

If it works why change it, and being someone who played in this system there is a lot more to it than most people think, but saying that there has been one change and with the team we have I would like to see it come back, and that is the option, in the mid to late 80's and early 90's we ran the option because we had the team to do it, and I think we have that type of team again. Let's face facts, Wayne is a good quarterback but he is not a passer, when he was flushed out of the pocket this year it was like he had duct tape on his hands and could not get rid of the ball, we need to utilize him the best we can and that would be having him using his legs to open up the passing game, by adding the option you would force the defense to focus on more thing which would make them crowd the box and open the passing game, but what do I know.

[TOP OF THE GROVE]

Three things wrong with the GROVE

1.Too much me me me, not a TEAM effort
2.Lack of respect from some of
The kids/ no discipline
3.Kids out of shape come 4th quarter/hands on knees breathing hard

Back when I played the practices were harder than the games
And we executed the plays! With a lot smaller people on the line than they have now!

JMO
BIG DADS system works if you execute and play as a team and not individuals

[HighSchoolFootballFan]

2_Trap: You're not getting it.... The problem is define what "works". Yes 6-4 is great after a 1-9 season or w/e, but after 5 years, that's not cutting it anymore. If you can't beat at least 8 of the teams that have been on Coal Grove's schedule with the athletes the grove has, I'm sorry, it doesn't work.
Use the option to make the defense fill the box... where have you been? the box is always full because teams know what they're going to do every game, it all depends on wether they can match coal grove's size... which lead to my previous comment :"If you play like thatm you will beat every team your better (bigger) than, and lose to every team as good as you or better. It's not a theory, it's fact, believe I'm not a real big fan of stats, but these speak for themselves. In five years, Coal Grove has beat 4 winning record teams, all of them 4 loss teams.
LetitBe: you are absolutely 100% correct in everything you say. The Grove has been beaten by a lesser Fairland team 2 years in a row now simply because they say "hey, we know what they're going to do, we'll put 9 in the box, cut those big bodies down and swarm the ball carrier and MAKE them pass because they're horrible at it." and if i had to coach against coal grove, you better believe id put 11 in the box, play the ends man up with my corners and have my safeties key the backs, come on, how hard could it be?
Look, if coal grove doesn't want to abandon that "scheme", then at least put in a few pass plays where the end pass protects for a second or so, and then releases... I mean do something. But I firmly believe Coal Grove will not get back to the playoffs until one of two things happens: 1. they discontinue that style of play, or 2. they move to the SOC I

[TOP OF THE GROVE]

Three things wrong with the GROVE

1.Too much me me me, not a TEAM effort
2.Lack of respect from some of
The kids/ no discipline
3.Kids out of shape come 4th quarter/hands on knees breathing hard

These little things are the difference between 6-4 and 10 -0 , The last three years this is what I see, as to why we are CO-champs instead of outright CHAMPS, till they play as a TEAM it will be like this.

[LetItBe]

1.Too much me me me, not a TEAM effort
2.Lack of respect from some of
The kids/ no discipline
3.Kids out of shape come 4th quarter/hands on knees breathing hard

JMO
BIG DADS system works if you execute and play as a team and not individuals

I'm a firm believer that almost any system can work.... Maybe the Coach has outgrown his old school style of coaching? Maybe Jr or some of the other members of the coaching staff are softies? I've heard from insiders who I talk to daily that Jr in particular has got quite a few boosters upset.
I've heard from former players that "Big Dad" as you people like to refer to him, plays favorites with some kids and that he (as well as the school faculty) lets those select few get by with whatever they want. That's not a good way to instill "respect" or "disipline" is it?

[HighSchoolFootballFan]

Couldn't have said it better myself... Coal Grove has many many athletes, why only utilize 2 or 3 of them? I just dont get it. Like I said, i realize there was a time when you could play like that and win... like everything else though, the game has changed. If i was an opposing coach, i would look forward to playing coal grove, i can think of few other teams who would be easier to gameplan for. You can still play smashmouth, tough football and open things up.. in college look at alabama, in the pros, look at the pittsburgh steelers.. both teams are run-oriented but have play makers at wide receivers that keep defenses honest.
I'll say it again, coal grove will not see the playoffs again until they begin to think outside the tackles...

[Bleeding Red]

Three things wrong with the GROVE

1.Too much me me me, not a TEAM effort
2.Lack of respect from some of
The kids/ no discipline
3.Kids out of shape come 4th quarter/hands on knees breathing hard

Back when I played the practices were harder than the games
And we executed the plays! With a lot smaller people on the line than they have now!

JMO
BIG DADS system works if you execute and play as a team and not individuals

Based on the games I saw Coal Grove play:

1.) The ME ME ME is apparent everywhere you look. When I was in school, if you walked out on your team, keep on walking. Your not coming back no matter how good you are. I believe this years team had very little discipline based on how the players acted and TALKED to the coaches on the sidelines.

2.) Play calling was too predictable. Too much emphisis on one or two players. Then when the power run would get the yardage needed to keep a drive alive, they tried to be too unpredicable and got outside their power running comfort zone and botched it up.

My opinion is, Coal Grove had as much talent on the field as just about anyone they played against this past year. I dont think you are going to see years where they have more than that much talent no matter how powerful the biddy league and Jr High teams look now.

[2trap_4ever]

2_Trap: You're not getting it.... The problem is define what "works". Yes 6-4 is great after a 1-9 season or w/e, but after 5 years, that's not cutting it anymore. If you can't beat at least 8 of the teams that have been on Coal Grove's schedule with the athletes the grove has, I'm sorry, it doesn't work.
Use the option to make the defense fill the box... where have you been? the box is always full because teams know what they're going to do every game, it all depends on wether they can match coal grove's size... which lead to my previous comment :"If you play like thatm you will beat every team your better (bigger) than, and lose to every team as good as you or better. It's not a theory, it's fact, believe I'm not a real big fan of stats, but these speak for themselves. In five years, Coal Grove has beat 4 winning record teams, all of them 4 loss teams.
LetitBe: you are absolutely 100% correct in everything you say. The Grove has been beaten by a lesser Fairland team 2 years in a row now simply because they say "hey, we know what they're going to do, we'll put 9 in the box, cut those big bodies down and swarm the ball carrier and MAKE them pass because they're horrible at it." and if i had to coach against coal grove, you better believe id put 11 in the box, play the ends man up with my corners and have my safeties key the backs, come on, how hard could it be?
Look, if coal grove doesn't want to abandon that "scheme", then at least put in a few pass plays where the end pass protects for a second or so, and then releases... I mean do something. But I firmly believe Coal Grove will not get back to the playoffs until one of two things happens: 1. they discontinue that style of play, or 2. they move to the SOC I

And if my memory serves me right, we stopped this style of play once and it got us in the mess we are in.

[HighSchoolFootballFan]

2trap, your memory doesn't serve me very well... I recall after lucas left, coal grove played the exact same style, but with a lot less execution. For instance, Nick Miller took over for the 99' season, Jason Adam's junior year. For those of you who don't remember, Adams was Miller's Hyland, carrying the ball 30-40 times a game. Now both Hyland and Adams were great players, and if used in a different way they could've been playoff contenders.
Don't tell me that Coal Grove left that style when I can remember Adams getting 40 carries a game back then.
It's not just a Lucas thing, it's a coal grove thing, and it needs to be changed if they want to see the post season again. Also worth noting is coal groves non conference schedule in 1999:
at Boyd County
at Gallipolis
at Amanda Clearcreek
Poca
Columbus Bishop Ready
Newark Catholic
When the grove starts playing a schedule like that again, then 6-4 or 7-3 will be A OK for me, but if not, just try to get into the SOC1... thats your best bet...

[Bleeding Red]

2trap, your memory doesn't serve me very well... I recall after lucas left, coal grove played the exact same style, but with a lot less execution. For instance, Nick Miller took over for the 99' season, Jason Adam's junior year. For those of you who don't remember, Adams was Miller's Hyland, carrying the ball 30-40 times a game. Now both Hyland and Adams were great players, and if used in a different way they could've been playoff contenders.
Don't tell me that Coal Grove left that style when I can remember Adams getting 40 carries a game back then.
It's not just a Lucas thing, it's a coal grove thing, and it needs to be changed if they want to see the post season again. Also worth noting is coal groves non conference schedule in 1999:
at Boyd County
at Gallipolis
at Amanda Clearcreek
Poca
Columbus Bishop Ready
Newark Catholic
When the grove starts playing a schedule like that again, then 6-4 or 7-3 will be A OK for me, but if not, just try to get into the SOC1... thats your best bet...

They just won the co-conference championship. Why try to get out of the OVC?

Is the #1 goal of the coaches to win the conference, or make the playoffs? I would have to think the first goal is to win the conference, which they sort of did, and if you can win 8-9 games then you make the playoffs on top of it.