Poor Choice Made by South Webster

[toothfairy]

I for one have come to expect this type of situation each time SW faces NW at any age level ,in any sport, just seems to be the norm anymore-I recall a high school boys game a few yrs. ago between these schools made the news after a NW player dove into Websters stands . Granted, we all have our share of certain parents, fans, players, and/or coaches who are known for showing themselves, but if these situations continue to escalate out of control more each season how long will it be before the schools decide its not worth the risk and/or the hassle and completely do away with these sports. Thank God that no serious injury resulted from either game last night, the last few seconds of the 8th grade game was totally beyond unacceptable behavior-hopefully these players can mature enough to show more restraint at these teams next meeting.

[nozzle95]

Well put toothfairy...and yes thank GOD that no one was seriously injured. I was certain that someone was going to be. Once again, thank GOD. I too, remember the High School incident you referred to; another example of a lack of control from the refs/school officials in controlling the players, fans/heckler. Don't want that issue to resurface so enough on that.

About maturity...These kids are just that...KIDS. Most all kids that age lack the maturity and restraint to not shove back when shoved on. Heck, most adults lack that restraint as well, especially in a public forum if they feel threatened. The majority of the players on either/both teams last night would have reacted similar if the circumstances would have presented toward them in the same manner. It's innate. It's in us all; however, adults can USUALLY control it...but not always. Everyone (who is honest) can think of a time in their life where they didn't exercise the restraint they had wished. Anyway, to say that it's only a few kids on either or both teams that need to mature I think is an under statment. All kids lack maturity (and even most adults in certain circumstances). I am not attacking your post, as I feel your literal words were not meant to be literal. I am sure you realize kids are..well kids.

I occationally read the "boards" but rarely even have the time or interest to post; most of the time it really doesn't matter to me. However, today I felt compelled to bring some attention to the lack of control at the event last night. Isn't that how most issues in life are resolved, through people talking about it and bringing attention to it. Who was at fault...Who really cares? Was it the refs? the Coaches? the School Representatives? AGAIN, who really cares as long as the issue is learned from and isn't allowed to happen again. Form a plan of how this can be prevented...develop a strategy and define the tactics that can be used to prevent and/or handle issues similar to these. Most of all...LEARN from the events of last night. The absence of organization, breeds chaos.

Well this horse has been beaten up pretty badly so I am a takin' it to the barn and putting it out of it's misery. I am leaving this thread following this post. Mission accomplished. If you have any further suggestions, criticisms, opinions, thoughts, ideas, or any other form of written communications, share it with those who remain, but I will not be the recipient, as I will be elsewhere and not checking this thread. I really am not that interested, just had some frustration and down time today and thought I would see what developed. I have a life, I work, I have a family and hobbies. I do not need to view this thread to fulfill any goal, dream, or future accomplishment in my life; therefore, I find it somewhat useless and counterproductive to bicker with others over things that really do not matter in life. Passion isn't an undesirable trait, but sometime surfaces in the most inappropriate way.

Good luck to South Webster and Northwest for the remainder of their seasons and beyond. Please be safe, exercise caution and common sense and never allow a child to be intentionally set-up for failure, which was exactly what happened last night. Nearly any child would have failed to perform to their highest ability in last night's environment. That's a shame. Didn't need to be like that. Could have definitely been handled better...you decide who "dropped the ball". I already have. Those of us who see it differently, well, that what's so great about life. If we all were equal and acted alike, most days would really boring and really bad at times. It doesn't matter where the blame falls. Someone must accept responsibility for the environment last night, but whom? WHO CARES!! As long as someone is in charge and everyone knows who that person is. Someone is always responsible. Sure that person can say it's not them, but others, co-workers, officials, representatives, families, friends, enemies, and heck, even that person themself knows different. When placed in charge...take charge. Words of wisdom from the great military leader Collin Powell. Good words to live by when you have responsibilities that others depend on you to carry out for safety and security reasons.

OK - In closing I wish each and every one of you (I really do) a very Merry Christmas and a very Happy and prosperous New Year. Please remember the ultimate reason for the season (no not the gifts and time off school), but the birth of a Savior who loves us unconditionally, even in our worst hour (often at games), and invites us each to return this gift to him. It his "game" that really matters. I know it's not a "game", but a metaphor I used to place perspective in the matter. Also, remember the less fortunate, those who are ill, in need, and those who are abroad, some fighting for their lives and our "right" and "freedom" to act as we do at these games, that really don't matter. If you stomach is full, you have a roof over your head, someone to call a true friend, someone to love and someone who loves you (even when tempers flare-up), the right to worship, the health to get around, and love in your heart...you are BLESSED. I know, I am BLESSED and is a gift we all too often take for granted. Good luck to all and GOD BLESS you and GOD BLESS the USA. The greatest Country in the World.

Thanks for the opportunity to post here and thanks to those who read and/or responded.

[fastpitch junkie]

nozzle 95, look I have been to several games involving nw and at everyone you make an a$$ out of yourself, you spoke your peace after the game and couldn't wait to get home and keep it going on here. It's over nothing can be done about it let it alone, and let the kids get on with ball. Grow up and let it drop, and hopefully the game at nw will be a fair and safe game without any retaliation from either team.

[art_vandelay]

LOL...you could not pay me enough to ref a junior high game. Like somebody said above, if you called everything you saw in a junior high girls game, it'd be a 3 hour game. The level of play isn't that good so the refs just got to let some things go to get somewhat of a flow going.

As for this game, I wasn't there so won't comment on how good or bad the refs were. But for the people who are this worked up about it, the OHSAA is always looking for more refs, so I'd consider taking the class and suiting up next year if it is really that big of a deal to you.*

[Frank Reagan]

But for the people who are this worked up about it, the OHSAA is always looking for more refs, so I'd consider taking the class and suiting up next year if it is really that big of a deal to you.*

Amen, Art. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[ssusoccer]

You know, you just had to be there and I guarantee you that your views would be different. I have played, coached and ref'd the game of basketball for over 30+ years at jr hi, high school and college, I never witnessed anything like it.

[JChipwood]

Wow!?! Amen Art and Brisco. Actually alot of good points on here but I question the accountability of the parents. The kids are trying to mature and grow up adn when grown ups act like kids then it can be very confusing. My solution would be to have a team meeting and pass out an info letter warning of fans that behavior will not be viewed as acceptable and actions taken such as year long suspensions from sporting events at the school. Away fans could lose home event priviliges. This should be monitored b/c fans are doing maturing kids injustice by acting in such a manor. Also I would question the coaches ability to control the game. Maybe this happened but if elbows were thrown then the coach has the ability to sub and eliminate that player from the game. If a punch or any kind of offensive strike took place then sitting the 1st qtr of the next game as well as some well deserved running would fix the problem. Maybe some of the parents would volunteer to run for or with their kids and they may learn as well. Not condoning the refs here b/c I am a coach therefore not a ref "fan" but this problem didn't develop over night. In fact it sounds like it will get worse rather than better. These kids may be learning that it is okay to act out. It is bad enough that they have to watch the spoiled types of NBA,NFL, & MLB players act like kids but to directly watch their parents, coaches, and mentors then what are they to think. Bad choice by the admin but we don't know the whole circumstance behind the situation. Sounds like very poor officiating but fans, parents, players and coaches have no control over the admins or the refs, we CAN control ourselves. Removing the fans may not have solved the refs but could have made a statement to the kids that behavior like that is unacceptable at any age. The big problem to me is, what was said last night in privacy whether it was the car ride home or inside the home itself?

With all that said, these officials need to be removed or re-schooled in their trade. Some of the described rules violations and complete lack of knowledge would drive anyone crazy. These players need to understand, however, that an official has authority and right or wrong, needs to respected. Not just for the sport but in life. All of us have probably learned some of our more valuable life lessons through sports and need to pass it on to the next generation.

[ssusoccer]

Yes!
JChipwood,
He lost the credibility when he would turn to the fans and justify what and why he made the calls that he did!
I hope that this night absolutely sheds no bad feelings towards both the SW and NW fans and parents. It was very hard to keep the emotions in check.
I have watched incidents get out of control on TV at games in different sports, believe me I thought that for the circumstances parents conducted themselves as well as expected. I did not hear the booing, if that happened, that was wrong!

You know, you just had to be there and I guarantee you that your views would be different. I have played, coached and ref'd the game of basketball for over 30+ years at jr hi, high school and college, I never witnessed anything like it.

Was it really as bad as it sounds?

[favabeans]

It was as bad as it sounds. I don't know how much training these two refs had but they need not be on the court for another game until they get more, lots more. I know that you need to start somewhere but you should know how to report fouls to the scorer's table, know what the penalty for having earrings on during a game, know where to place kids for an inbounds pass, basic things like that. It happened to both teams.

That being said, the fans are what turned these games ugly. That carried on to the floor and things got out of hand. Players looking into the stands and making remarks to their family/friends and those people egging them on or telling them to do something in retaliation. Both teams. So we can say everyone is at fault here. We should take the blame on ourselves and hopefully learn from this and think the next time somthing like this happens. Our children learn by example. I know I've had to have a talk with my better half many times about controlling his temper at games and so have the kids. We all scream at a ref from time to time and it's a waste of time but what I witnessed Monday went way beyond anything I've ever seen. Let's learn from it and not let it affect the rest of our respective seasons, especially when we play each other again. Good luck to both teams.

[bballermom]

Jchipwood and Digger-
well put

[rbwfan]

Hopefully the respective coaches have instructed their players regarding the behavior that is expected from them. The adults in the gym should realize now it doesn't matter who was right or wrong. There will always be questionable calls in basketball, and alot of the time it all works itself out through give and take. Bad decisions on the part of a few should not reflect on the entire school or team. Given the events that did take place, I think it shows the character of the students that this didn't escalate into something worse. There will always be two sides to this story, and each team can be faulted for things that shouldn't have happened. Let's hope for a better outcome in the coming games and that the next match-up between these two teams can be played without incident.

[bizzle]

OK...I was at the game and it was completely OUT of CONTROL...Mainly Refs..Srry 2 whom says it wasn't. Parents had no cause in what happened..yes both sides were yelling so it was not all NW fault..and if one shouldve been put out then so shouldve the man making barking sounds while NW girls shot. Players had 2 tell the refs which team was going which way sometimes. One girl was tryin to get the ball from a NW girl and instead started choking her from behind...after she was choking and saying she was getting choked the Ref finally called a foul. Then accidentally a NW girl fell on a SW girl and the SW girl got up and began cursing and the coach then took her out. The girl that got pushed in the end was telling girl from NW the whole game they sucked and that she was going to put their face in the ground. Finally at the end of the game before the buzzer rang a NW girl went to make a ball a jump ball and then let go when the buzzer rang..The other girl then pushed her so she pushed her back and then another NW girl came up and pushed the same SW girr in the back..NO ONE WAS HIT. The NW girl that first pushed then grabbed the other NW girl and pulled her back and went to their coaches.. They were then escorted to the locker room and that was final..and the score was 45-26 not 40-15!!!

[nwmother95]

Let me start off by saying that i was present the entire game and this is not the first time that nw has had problems with the refs at sw and i am sure it will not be the last. First let me get out there that the nw girls won the game by beating the refs and sw. SW if famous for having refs that make bogus calls and out of the blue off the wall calls, not just against us but against other schools. First of all the game should have been forfeited by sw due to the fact that the original refs that were scheduled to be there, the ones with experience, were unable to make it . first time refs should never have been able to ref a game no matter what age group it is. This is info we obtained through the sw middle school principle. Furthermore why did the refs always go up to sw coaches to get advice when they were unsure what call they were to make? That just leads us to believe that they were being told what calls to make by the opposing team. We have come to expect shotty calls when we are at sw. We have had no other problems with other schools during jr high games since i have been going to them this year. We had the same problems with refs when we were there for a volleyball game in the fall, numerous calls being called against us and not knowing why the calls were made. I am sure that many things could have been done differently the other night, me personally i do not ever want to play a game again there because as history has proven it will be the same crap the always happens at sw. I do not believe there will be problems with sw when they travel to nw in feb, our refs are fair, we have never had a problem with a visiting school at our games, and i hope that emotions by that time have died down. By just watching the game i could see the refs standing in the way of our girls as they were trying to dribble the ball down the court, forcing them to go around them, a call was made when the ball went behind the backboard and one ref blew the whistle to declare the ball out of bounds and sw kept the ball in play and shot a 3 pointer which they counted, now don't tell me that it was just plain not knowing any better on the part of the refs, that was flat out cheating. For anyone to say that sw won that game must have saw a different game than I. Our girls had to fight hard to get what they wanted, and they got what they deserved. I do agree that emotions got out of control but there is just so much crap that you can take till you are fed up and emotions take over. I just want sw refs to treat all teams and games fairly then maybe games there would be more enjoyable.

[BlindWhiteHat]

This has to be one of the most idiotic threads I've ever read on SEOP. I can honestly say that I am dumber for having read these posts.

There are few good points on here but one was the post that discussed how hard it is to officiate a girls JH game and how the OHSAA needs more officials. All those on here who are so critical of them should take the class and do a better job.

For those who say these guys need more experience before working a girls junior high game..........are you freaking kidding me????????? Where exactly do you expect these people to get more experience? The OHSAA does not sanction any leagues below the junior high level. I'll repeat for those who won't get it the first time. THE OHSAA DOES NOT HAVE ANY LEVELS BELOW JUNIOR HIGH. I'm sure some will say there are pee wee games but the problem there is those leagues make up their own rules in some areas. These guys have to get experience somewhere, it may as well be at the OHSAA's lowest level. Sorry if you have a child that plays at this level but that's how it goes. I can't believe others would criticize the school because supposedly a more experienced crew cancelled. How is that the school's fault? Again, if you think being an official is tough, try being a school's athletic director. Finding officials willing to show up and put up with this type of crap is just as difficult as calling the games.

From my experience, when games get out of hand on the court such as this one, it can be blamed on the coaches and parents. You can blame the officials for not calling fouls if you like. Ultimately the coach should keep his or her players under control. The parents screaming from the stands is usually what causes the games to get out of hand. When the players hear the coach and their parents getting upset and losing control, they will follow suit.

I wasn't at this game but I've been at plenty just like it so I don't need to hear, "you weren't there so you don't know." Believe me, I've seen plenty of games in which inexperienced officials didn't call a good game and things got out of hand. When the parents and coaches fueled the fire, things got worse. That sounds exactly like what happened here.

[fastpitch junkie]

Hey dummies dont you think that the more you holler at the refs the less they are going to call in your favor. so the best thing is to shut up and watch the game and maybe it will work out in the end. take the class and see just how much you can see trying to watch 20 hands, 20 feet, and 10 bodies with 2 eyes.

[fastpitch junkie]

oh and by the way nwmother95 its obvious that you just got on here to bash someone since that was your 1st post, so lay down

[favabeans]

To nwmother, the calls were bad on BOTH sides. Did the refs get in the way? Sure did, BOTH sides. Did they make bad calls both ways? Sure did. Do you see anyone from Webster crying about the 7th grade losing? No! Northwest won and won fair and square, so don't start with the sour grapes about the 8th grade game. And this wasn't the first game the refs had called. They called a jv game at West last week.

And I'm pretty sure that the schools are assigned refs, the schools don't pick them. A school can request to not have a particular ref but that's about it. Not 100% sure so if someone does know (for sure, not guessing) let us know.

About the volleyball game, I was there too and that really came out of left field. Don't remember anything bad happening there. If you don't know why calls are being made, read the rule book or ask the coach what the rules are. Stop blaming every loss at Webster on the refs. Both the Webster 7th and 8th grade teams lost tonight but you won't find anyone on here blaming the refs. They worked hard but they still lost.

[art_vandelay]

Blindwhitehat: GREAT post. I'd rather watch new officials screw up a junior high girls game as opposed to a varsity boys/girls game. It's unfortunate, but where else are the officials going to get real game experience? And let's remember that junior high sports isn't about winning/losing, it's about building team and personal skills to be carried on to high school. If the refs are subpar, then the kids just got to do their best and deal with it.

I'll say it again, especially for the people still whining: THE OHSAA IS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR OFFICIALS...IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED TO POST ON SEOPREPS JUST TO WHINE ABOUT THEM, TAKE THE CLASS AND SUIT UP. I've been kicking around the idea for a few years, but for some odd reason, this lame thread is inspiring me to finally take the plunge and get my license.*

[nwmother95]

to fastpitch, i was just stating what myself and many others saw with our own eyes. if you dont like what i have to say dont read it. and to all the others who did not like what i had to say oh well, but i do hope for the sake of all children involved that next year when we have to travel to sw again that it will be a much different experience. and to digger, sw was our first win this year, and we were not belly aching about the other two schools who flat outplayed, and kicked our rears, nor were we blaming anyone for the defeats. and furthermore your middle school principle is the one that told us this was the refs first game ever refing, i also did not join the post to bash, my goal is to defend my childs team. so maybe you need to get over it and find a new hobby. END OF SUBJECT GET OVER IT

[fastpitch junkie]

mwmother95 you better reread your post you bash the refs and no support was given to the girls