Any of the local teams use the 3-3-5- defense

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Fire away.
What do you like best about this defense?
Biggest flaws in this defense?


http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB ... php?t=8562

[D Owens]

I've never heard of it. I don't think anyone around here runs anything like that.

I don't think you could win with a defense like that.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

They play great ball in Texas.

[Boonedawg]

It's a fairly common def scheme out west.

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

I've never heard of it. I don't think anyone around here runs anything like that.

I don't think you could win with a defense like that.

Why Not?

[D Owens]

newarkcatholicfan:

I've never heard of it. I don't think anyone around here runs anything like that.

I don't think you could win with a defense like that.

I was being a clown. We've run some variation of this defense since week ten of the '05 season here at Waverly.

It still comes down to our guys against your guys. We (Waverly) won twenty-one games in '06 and '07 running the 3-5-3 (or 3-3-5 if you like). We beat running teams and throwing teams and made the adjustments that we needed to as we needed to. Obviously, this defense is better in some situations than it is in others, just like every other defense.

Tobias:

If a team runs out of the spread, a 3-3-5 is blocked easily for 10+ yards very easily.

If our folks are as good as or better than your folks, it isn't blocked easily at all. The fundamental problem with your diagram is that all of the people you have bailing aren't bailing on a run play if they are reading keys. Why would you drop eight against a pro-I? Are you using this set as a prevent?

[coal miner's son]

It reminds me of a 3-4. A LB is replaced with a $. A 3-4 is very similar to a 5-2 by walking up the OLBers. I agree...it's your guys vs our guys. Personnel would dictate this scheme, as well as team playing.

[ausa]

Paint Valley ran it for a few years, with some success for the first year, but lost the key to this defense, a dominating nose tackle. To have success with this defense vs. the run you need a monster at nose that can take up 2-3 blockers allowing the lb's and extra db's to make tackles.

[D Owens]

traps are easy to run against this defense...especially against upfield rushing ends/OLB. If the end/OLB stays back, then you kick it outside or roll out.

If our ends or OLBs are rushing upfield they aren't doing what they are coached to do and will soon be standing beside me watching someone else play that position. If they are going upfield, they are supposed to be squeezing to take away the trap.

One of the great things about this defense is that you are always able to outflank the offense in terms of alignment and run/pass responsibilities with regards to the secondary people. We don't sit in a three-deep zone. Our secondary people have run responsibilities and pass responsibilities. They need to be able to play the run and pass well. We don't use a, "bail on the snap" philosophy with regards to pass coverage.

a dominating nose tackle

That is a GREAT point. Having a stud covering the center is the key to any odd front defense in my opinion. That has always been my rule in deciding to run either an odd or even front. If I can't cover the center with a dominant player, I think we're better off in an even front. I don't like even fronts because I think they are easier to block and easy to trap (all things being equal as far as talent goes of course).

[Westfan]

St. Xavier ran this year before when they won the state. Against Colerain I remember thinking Colerain would kill them on those dive plays but they pretty much shut them down. Colerain was much bigger also. Was hard for Colerain to run their option because St. Xaviers alignment made it hard for them to block outside and they were easily able to get penetration up field.

On the other hand, didn't Waverly run this last year and Westfall gashed them running out of the spread formations? I know Waverly was down this year, but it was the same thing against West running out of the T. West was committed to running the ball. With only 3 down linemen and none of them 300 pound studs commanding double teams, the guards and tackles are easily getting to the second level. In this case your only hope is to run blitz. Guess right and it looks good, wrong and its a big gainer.

This is a good defense (great against the pass) but can be run against if you don't have 3 stud defensive linemen. Personally if I was a DC, I would make the 4-2-5 my base defense. Many different looks out of this. Good at defending the pass and the run.

[D Owens]

ends/OLB's

Who are we talking about here? We call the two outside down guys on the LOS ends and our outside two linebackers "spur" and "bandit." Our ends are often "C" gap guys with spur and bandit reading EMLOS. You aren't going to seal 'em all!

Defending spread sets isn't usually a problem for us because our kids see it a lot in practice. Tobias, check your private messages.

Didn't Waverly run this last year and Westfall gashed them running out of the spread formations.

Yes we've run the 3-5-3 since the end of '05. Westfall had a great team in '07. I believe that they made it to the state semifinals. If I remember correctly, we had four linebackers out that game and the fifth one was sick. I believe that we also only had one running back that game as well. I don't know that we would have beaten them had we been full strength, but you run a given defense because of the people that you have. When you suddenly don't have those people due to illness or injury it matters.

[OVCfan32]

I've been around it and ran it in college. . . . It can really handle an I pro better than you think. . . only problem is it just can't stop belly, . . . simple dives, quick to the fullback. . . .but its a defense good at keeping your athletes on the field

[D Owens]

OVCfan32:

If you look at my post again, the question I asked was, "Why would you drop eight against a pro-I?" I was wondering if it was being used that way as a prevent alignment. I didn't mean it was a defense that couldn't be used to defend a pro-I.

Stopping dive and belly is about having great linebacker play. It's tough to get there on quick-hitting plays when the offense is running the bubbles.

[Orange and Brown]

I haven't seen it ran in SE Ohio
All I hve seen is 5 man fronts nd some 4-4

[OVCfan32]

I wasn't really responding to anything, I was too lazy to check out what everyone else had said. . .just throwing in my two cents. . . it works great on I pro though. . . .think about it, the RB is 6 or 7 yards deep. . .so you really don't need immediate pressure

[wrestler87]

I think it's awesome as long as it is learned from no later than the 8th grade level. That way the 4-3, 5-2/3 and other adjustments can be made week to week w/o confusing the kids. By The end of HS, a lot of kids should be able to read the offensive lineup based on what they are coached through the week anyway.

[91Buckeye]

New Lex runs it. They didn't have any monsters up front but had good pursuit to the ball and disciplined gap control. They had a lot of success with that scheme this year.

[wrestler87]

It seems that for any school, finding 3 studs to put up front would be easier than 5. On the other hand, with 5 you can try to just "clog" the holes, but then the backs need to be more precise in coverage. Obviously you need to consider what you have. 3 LB types and 5 DB types seem like they would fit the avg. high school ratio of "small" to "big" player better than say a 5-2.
The defense doesn't make the win though. The players, matchups and timing of the playcalls do.IMO
Best case, again, teach them how they interchange very early! Kids are not as stupid as they are often treated. Are any coaches reading this? Watch how well they know the game at, say, Louisville. Although their base was a 5-3 I believe, they knew how to move and stunt well.

[boogerred]

I think pretty much all defenses are the same.

Someone said it looked like a 3-5; I say it looks like a 5-3.

The reason they look the same is because they are the same; they all have slight modifications in personnel and responsibility. I have seem "5-3" teams run defenses that are basically the same as that.

Calling something a 3-5 that is actually a 5-3 let's you put kids who want to play linebacker (and not be a lineman. We've all been in this situation before. "I don't wanna play line, coach.") at defensive end. A little easy way to solve that problem for a coach.

[fbfever9]

It's a great defense to run on long yardage plays or against a defense that passes out of the spread. If a team runs out of the spread, a 3-3-5 is blocked easily for 10+ yards very easily.

Tobias,
the biggest problem with your diagram is that it does not show a 3-3-5 defense. It shows a 5-3 defense. The two 3s, refer to 3 down lineman, 3 LB, & 5 DB's. Often referred to as a "nickel" package...