Tournament draw Div 3 and Div 4

[theassassin]

weather could play havoc with this weeks games. some teams could benefit from having games postponed while hurting others at the same time.

[trojandave]

With Gallia Academy being rescheduled to Feb.14, Portsmouth's remaining games are Friday at home vs. Warren, home vs. South Point on Saturday, at Chillicothe next Tuesday, home vs. Zanesville the following Friday, and at home vs. Northwest next Saturday. It will be tough for the Trojans to go through those 5 games without a loss.........the Trojans probably will go into the draw with no fewer than 6 losses.........we still are a better team than last year, though.......but our fate is probably no better than a #7 seed...........

[JIMMY THE GREEK]

How about some updates records for the Waverly Sectional.

Valley is 11-3. 9-2 in the SOC.

Worst case is they go to the draw 12-4. Barring something stupid, they will beat West on Friday. Then they have to go to Oak Hill the night before the draw. 13-3 should put them in the top 2. 12-4 they should be 3/4.

I disagree, if Valley comes in at 13-3 and Piketon 15-2, no way will Valley go #1 or #2. Piketon has played one of the toughest schedules in the draw, and I'm sure the SVC coaches who played them, will not pick Valley. North Adams barring an upset will be #1 or #2. It will be tough for Valley to get that number #2 seed, even if Piketon comes in at 14-3. But, who knows.....right now there's a lot of teams with 3 & 4 L's, so it will depend on how the coaches vote.

[coop]

How about some updates records for the Waverly Sectional.

Valley is 11-3. 9-2 in the SOC.

Worst case is they go to the draw 12-4. Barring something stupid, they will beat West on Friday. Then they have to go to Oak Hill the night before the draw. 13-3 should put them in the top 2. 12-4 they should be 3/4.

I disagree, if Valley comes in at 13-3 and Piketon 15-2, no way will Valley go #1 or #2. Piketon has played one of the toughest schedules in the draw, and I'm sure the SVC coaches who played them, will not pick Valley. North Adams barring an upset will be #1 or #2. It will be tough for Valley to get that number #2 seed, even if Piketon comes in at 14-3. But, who knows.....right now there's a lot of teams with 3 & 4 L's, so it will depend on how the coaches vote.

I'm going to have to "counter-disagree" with you. It's not "impossible" for Valley to get the #2, ESPECIALLY if Valley comes in at 13-3 and Piketon 14-3. You mentiond "strength" of schedule, and I dont think Piketons schedule has been overly "tough" to be honest. I think Valley has played just as tough a schedule and also has some "impressive" wins. I think it all depends on the coaches, but body of work wise if Valley comes in at 13-3 they are just as deserving as 15-2 Piketon.

Piketon:
w Clark Montesori 67-56 (Currently 7-7)
L Zane Trace 44-55
w Huntington 69-61
w Col Mifflin 75-60 (Currently 0-11)
w Paint Valley 74-41
vs New Boston ppd
w Western 72-58 (Both teams played and beat soundly)
w Waverly 65-60 (Currently 9-4 with a W vs. Valley They are @Valley next week)
w Adena 68-58
w Southeastern 72-68
w Unioto 58-46
w Westfall 82-61
w Zane Trace 75-49
L Huntington 45-55 (Valley has a W over them, along with Piketon)
w Westfall 64-46



Valley:
L South Point 64-73
w Grandview 62-59 (Currently 10-2 only other loss was 3pt to Fisher Cath.)
w Western 94-62 (Both teams played and beat pretty soundly)
w Northwest 59-37
w Ports. West 80-51
L Wheelersburg 41-55
w Huntington 65-56 (Currently 8-6, with a W over Piketon)
w Clay 67-51
w Oak Hill 65-55
w So Webster 72-67
L Waverly 58-66
w Minford 76-73
w Northwest 83-69
w Wheelersburg 44-43


Looking at the schedules, I wouldnt say that Piketons schedule is much "tougher" than the Indians. Both teams beat who they were "supposed" to beat, with the exception of South Point (Valley) and Huntington (Piketon) They both have "key" wins in the conference and both currently lead thier conference. Unless you feel the SVC is much stronger than the SOCII. One thing Piketon has going, only the 2 L's, but to counter Valley has a win over a VERY good Grandview Heights team, who has been steamrolling thier schedule. I think if Valley beats Oak Hill twice, combined with the win over HHS, Grandview, and Burg it would be hard for coaches to not consider them in the #2 discussion. At 12-4, the Indians are no better than a #3/4. I'm not saying they are "better" than Piketon, I just think thier body of work is.

***But this is saying Valley beats Oak Hill, which will be no easy tast at all***

[Ironman92]

"North Adams wouldn't beat Columbus Mifflin"


That's a bold comment for Mifflin is winless and NA is undefeated.

Awesome.

[JIMMY THE GREEK]

Failed to mention Westfall is 11-5 (2 L's to Piketon), Adena 10-4, ZT 9-4, Huntington 8-6, then beating 9-4 Waverly at Waverly in the Holiday Classic Championship game, Mifflin at Mifflin (you would have to be there to understand) plus they are not winless and considering Mifflin's schedule it doesnt matter. Clark Montesorri considering where they play 7-7 is good, although their web-site says they're 8-5. Bottom line coaches will decide, my opinion is no greater than yours and vise versa. Look at those SVC records, three of those teams could potentially be #3 or #4 seeds, so like I said who knows???? I believe Piketon will also face a 10-1 Vinton County team prior to the draw. I'm sorry....but that is a tougher schedule.

[coop]

Failed to mention Westfall is 11-5 (2 L's to Piketon), Adena 10-4, ZT 9-4, Huntington 8-6, then beating 9-4 Waverly at Waverly in the Holiday Classic Championship game, Mifflin at Mifflin (you would have to be there to understand) plus they are not winless and considering Mifflin's schedule it doesnt matter. Clark Montesorri considering where they play 7-7 is good, although their web-site says they're 8-5. Bottom line coaches will decide, my opinion is no greater than yours and vise versa. Look at those SVC records, three of those teams could potentially be #3 or #4 seeds, so like I said who knows???? I believe Piketon will also face a 10-1 Vinton County team prior to the draw. I'm sorry....but that is a tougher schedule.

I didnt "fail" to mention that, you already know their record, thats why i didnt say "Oak Hill is 11-2, Wheelersburg 10-3, Waverly, 9-4, Minford 9-4....because I already know the records of the in-conference teams. As far as mifflin, maxpreps has them @ 0-9 without 4 scores reported, so they are no better than 4-9, at best. How is the schedule tougher? Valley faces 11-2 STATE AP ranked #9 Oak Hill right before the draw....that offsets the Vinton Co. game there. And with Grandview Heights, they do not play a chump schedule, they are a legit 10-2, here is a link to their schedule http://www.ghhsbasketball.com/boysvarsitysked0809.html Like I said, I'm not said we're better....I'm saying we're deserving and have just as "tough" a schedule as the Streaks.

Here is a "before the draw" breakdown:

As far as schedules: Valley 11-3 (9-2 SOC2) Piketon 12-2(8-2 SVC)

Combined Record of the teams Piketon has played: 102-92 (14 games)
Combined Record of the teams Valley has played: 100-76 (14 games)

Piketon has played 7 teams with a winning record: (ZT, WF, HHS all 2x only counted once, and I included Clark as a winning record)
Valley has played 8 teams with a winning record: (Burg 2x only counted once)

Piketon has key wins over: Westfall(11-5), Waverly(9-4), Zane Trace(9-4), Huntington(8-6), Western(8-4), Adena(10-4)
Valley has key wins over: Oak Hill(11-2), Minford(9-4), Wheelersburg(10-3), Grandview Heights(10-2), Huntington(8-6), Western(8-4)

Piketon has losses to: Huntington(8-6), Zane Trace(9-4)
Valley has lost to: South Point(8-4), Wheelersburg(10-3), Waverly(9-4)

Piketon has a key game with: Vinton County (10-1???)
Valley has a key game with: Oak Hill (11-2)


With the numbers, you really HONESTLY can not tell me (without the SVC bias) Piketon has a much "tougher" schedule than Valley, no way I'm buying it. But, as you've said and I agree, it is up to the coaches.

[Mad-Dogg]

when is the tourny draw?

[beaverlover]

The tourney draw is Feb.8


The Piketon/Vinton Co. game is Feb.14

[mustang77]

I think this will be a good game - If it is at Piketon they will win - if it is at Vinton Co they will win.

[beaverlover]

I think this will be a good game - If it is at Piketon they will win - if it is at Vinton Co they will win.

It is at OUC in Chillicothe

[coop]

The tourney draw is Feb.8


The Piketon/Vinton Co. game is Feb.14

I gotcha...so If Valley beats Oak Hill the night before the draw, they have a even better chance of getting the #2. Of course...IF we beat Oak Hill.

[Kickinurz]

Valley wouldn't beat the top 3 teams in the SVC in a best of 3 series. I saw Westfall play my LE Braves tough and Piketon is just flat out better. Zt is no slouch either.

[JIMMY THE GREEK]

The tourney draw is Feb.8


The Piketon/Vinton Co. game is Feb.14

I gotcha...so If Valley beats Oak Hill the night before the draw, they have a even better chance of getting the #2. Of course...IF we beat Oak Hill.

I would still consider Mifflin and Clark quality wins, regardless of their records. I cannot see too many Southern Ohio teams go into a Columbus City League school on a Saturday Night and handle a relentless press and win by 15, after winning an overtime game the night before. I thought the win against Clark was a quality win as well, due to the type of athletes they put on the floor and although we struggled late against their press, we played well enough to win. Furthermore, I never said Valley played a weak schedule. The Burg is not your normal Burg team this year, however they still have one of the best coaches in the district. Oak Hill is a very good Div.IV team with a coach that knows how to win, I'm sure they could probably beat anyone around on any given night, I seen Piketon destroy Minford during the summer and a pre-season scrimmage which doesn't mean much, but I have seen them. Grandview, I take your word for it. I do believe Valley has quality wins just as well as Piketon. If Piketon wins out and comes in at 15-2......no way will Valley go ahead of them. I'm sure Piketon's schedule is the reason why they're ranked #10 by the AP Poll, 7 out of their first 8 games were on the road. We can go on for 10 more days with this debate, but I'm finished.....the coaches will decide, I'm not sure how many of them read this junk and I hope they're not crazy enough to allow it to influence their decision. If both teams lose....it will really be a mess!

[trojandave]

Unless the Trojans can have a good 5 game stretch between now and the end of next week, Valley and Piketon's fate may be having to play Portsmouth in the second round of the sectional.......that is if we can win the first game which we didn't do last year when Zane Trace knocked us out quick 80-74.

[stephen3108]

To the comment that North Adams would not beat Mifflin or Montessori:

There is no validity to that statement at all. Especially with the quality they have shown in the tournament throughout the last few years. Anyone who knows about their tournament record knows they are good in big gyms. Here is a little known fact. North Adams has played more games in the convo than any other gym in SE Ohio besides their own. So don't tell me they couldn't go into a big place and beat two sub .500 teams.

[trojandave]

Having lived in Columbus for 10 years while watching a lot of City League basketball.......I know for a fact that an 0-11 team in the CL is not a good team at all........but it's not Piketon's fault.......I respect Coach Lisath for scheduling them......and the time it was scheduled Mifflin wasn't this bad............

But I would not consider Mifflin a quality win for Piketon.......I remember when Portsmouth would beat the dickens out of City League teams and quite frankly they just weren't very good.......athletic, yes, but plain not good.

The SVC is giving Piketon much better competition than Mifflin did.

[coop]

Having lived in Columbus for 10 years while watching a lot of City League basketball.......I know for a fact that an 0-11 team in the CL is not a good team at all........but it's not Piketon's fault.......I respect Coach Lisath for scheduling them......and the time it was scheduled Mifflin wasn't this bad............

But I would not consider Mifflin a quality win for Piketon.......I remember when Portsmouth would beat the dickens out of City League teams and quite frankly they just weren't very good.......athletic, yes, but plain not good.

The SVC is giving Piketon much better competition than Mifflin did.

Agreed. And on top of that, Portsmouth is going to be a tough draw for whatever higher seed they face.

[JIMMY THE GREEK]

Unless the Trojans can have a good 5 game stretch between now and the end of next week, Valley and Piketon's fate may be having to play Portsmouth in the second round of the sectional.......that is if we can win the first game which we didn't do last year when Zane Trace knocked us out quick 80-74.

Actually, I see Portsmouth at #8, which will play #9 and the winner will get #1 North Adams. There will be too many other teams with better records than Portsmouth and if they can't win a couple of games prior to the draw, I say #8 or #9 at best.

[JIMMY THE GREEK]

Having lived in Columbus for 10 years while watching a lot of City League basketball.......I know for a fact that an 0-11 team in the CL is not a good team at all........but it's not Piketon's fault.......I respect Coach Lisath for scheduling them......and the time it was scheduled Mifflin wasn't this bad............

But I would not consider Mifflin a quality win for Piketon.......I remember when Portsmouth would beat the dickens out of City League teams and quite frankly they just weren't very good.......athletic, yes, but plain not good.

The SVC is giving Piketon much better competition than Mifflin did.

Actually trojandave, Mifflin has won a couple of games, and not too many teams will beat the teams they've already played such as Columbus Northland, they took Brookhaven down to the wire and lost, also lost another close game. Are they down ...yes....but comparing what Portsmouth USE to do to Columbus teams doesn't mean anything, because Portsmouth kicked everyone's butt....back in the day! You would have to be there (at Mifflin) to understand what I'm saying....it was an intimidating atmosphere and they have some fast quick athletes that would put the heat on most teams around here. Going to Columbus beating a Div.II City League Team who plays Div. I teams is a quality win for a Pike County School. Maybe not to Portsmouth....but most teams around here....I say yes!