D4 Northwest Sectional

[bbjunky81]

Sure it's nice, but I think there are more advantages of joining the SOC2, that would outweigh hanging banners, I could b wrong, but I bet if u asked the Eastern administration they would jump at the chance to join the SOC2.

What advantage would that give them? Webster plays in it and takes it's thumpings and what do they get out of it, a little bit more of a run in the tournament? Eastern in my opinion would not want to move up to the SOC 2. Why would you like not winning SOC championships?

Move up to SOC 2 to get another win in the tournament? I think they'll take their chances...

I'll take a gold ball any day vs getting beat in the District Finals vs the Semi-Finals.

Like I said, for the first time in my life I'm actually in agreement with you. It isn't doing them any good for their tournament run when their schedule isn't respected, they're given a low seed, and paired with arguably the best team in the sectional year in and year out.

[bbjunky81]

Let's get back to seeding. Is East worthy of a better seed the SW?

Personally I don't think so, if the entire season is brought into account. Ever since Scott went down with an injury they've been a completely different team - waxed by Notre Dame and Clay at home by good margins. The win vs. Eastern Pike definitely salvaged an argument somewhat, but the horrific loss to Ironton St. Joe who is nottttttttttttt good (Northwest even beat them), has to be taken into account somewhat.

The seeding should be evaluated by season long games/wins/losses and teams should be evaluated at the draw, and this last month should account into East's seeding.

With that said, East posters will disagree, and I'm fine with that. We have two different opinions on the subject, and won't be able to convince each other otherwise so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the coaches think

[AllAboutTheU]

I do agree the loss to St. Joe is a BAD LOSS. East has won 3/4 games without Scott though, I do think you get SW on a bigger floor they beat East.

[juanmorales]

I just think with Eastern adding football (great move btw. I like it) They will eventually move to SOC2. Eastern, in my opinion, will continue to grow and as the experience with football grows, they will be able to eventually compete in SOC2 in football. They already can hold their own in basketball in SOC2. Their athletes are consistently good year in and year out. As other SOC1 schools have up and down years. It seems like EP is always good. I think eventually the move to SOC2 will happen for them and SW will go down

[bbjunky81]

I do agree the loss to St. Joe is a BAD LOSS. East has won 3/4 games without Scott though, I do think you get SW on a bigger floor they beat East.

I agree, I think they do too. They had a chance to win @ East but couldn't pull it out, Scott was a huge matchup problem for the Jeeps. Even last year a not-as-good South Webster team beat the #1 seeded East on a large floor (@ South Webster). The gym makes a hugeeeeee difference for East.

Looking at their schedule since Scott went down they have:

Wins vs: Eastern, Western, Manchester
Losses vs: Notre Dame, St Joe, Peebles, Clay

3-4 record, obviously a different team as they were 8-2 before Scott went down.

[BobcatFuture1]

Here is the bottom line for SW or anyone, you have to WIN games. My Bobcats have been in a lot of games this year, 10 losses where we have lead in the 3rd-4th quarter to be exact, but does Coach Hollar get to pound his chest at the tournament draw and talk about how, oh we played this team, oh we played with them, oh we lead by 5 in the 3rd quarter. If if's and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas! We didn't win, but we were CLOSE, we almost won, we woulda, coulda, shoulda... NOPE, not how it works. At the end of the day you have to WIN games regardless of who is on your schedule or who you play. In the famous words of the late Al Davis... JUST WIN BABY!!

[bbjunky81]

Here is the bottom line for SW or anyone, you have to WIN games. My Bobcats have been in a lot of games this year, 10 losses where we have lead in the 3rd-4th quarter to be exact, but does Coach Hollar get to pound his chest at the tournament draw and talk about how, oh we played this team, oh we played with them, oh we lead by 5 in the 3rd quarter. If if's and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas! We didn't win, but we were CLOSE, we almost won, we woulda, coulda, shoulda... NOPE, not how it works. At the end of the day you have to WIN games regardless of who is on your schedule or who you play. In the famous words of the late Al Davis... JUST WIN BABY!!

Unlike Green, they've won plenty of games. 8 to be exact, with the next 4 before the draw all very winnable games.

[BobcatFuture1]

Here is the bottom line for SW or anyone, you have to WIN games. My Bobcats have been in a lot of games this year, 10 losses where we have lead in the 3rd-4th quarter to be exact, but does Coach Hollar get to pound his chest at the tournament draw and talk about how, oh we played this team, oh we played with them, oh we lead by 5 in the 3rd quarter. If if's and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas! We didn't win, but we were CLOSE, we almost won, we woulda, coulda, shoulda... NOPE, not how it works. At the end of the day you have to WIN games regardless of who is on your schedule or who you play. In the famous words of the late Al Davis... JUST WIN BABY!!

Unlike Green, they've won plenty of games. 8 to be exact, with the next 4 before the draw all very winnable games.

It's the same argument. You win 8, you get seeded like you won 8, doesn't matter if you think you COULD of won 13 or however many. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

[bbjunky81]

Here is the bottom line for SW or anyone, you have to WIN games. My Bobcats have been in a lot of games this year, 10 losses where we have lead in the 3rd-4th quarter to be exact, but does Coach Hollar get to pound his chest at the tournament draw and talk about how, oh we played this team, oh we played with them, oh we lead by 5 in the 3rd quarter. If if's and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas! We didn't win, but we were CLOSE, we almost won, we woulda, coulda, shoulda... NOPE, not how it works. At the end of the day you have to WIN games regardless of who is on your schedule or who you play. In the famous words of the late Al Davis... JUST WIN BABY!!

Unlike Green, they've won plenty of games. 8 to be exact, with the next 4 before the draw all very winnable games.

It's the same argument. You win 8, you get seeded like you won 8, doesn't matter if you think you COULD of won 13 or however many. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Never said they should be seeded based off what they "could" have won. Actually, don't think anyone has.

They'll most likely go into the draw with a 12-8 record and undoubtedly the toughest schedule in the sectional. A team like Leesburg who plays in a weaker conference, and lost an atrocious Clermont Northeastern team, will be seeded higher although they haven't really did anything to deserve it.

[SHACFan]

Unlike Green, they've won plenty of games. 8 to be exact, with the next 4 before the draw all very winnable games.

It's the same argument. You win 8, you get seeded like you won 8, doesn't matter if you think you COULD of won 13 or however many. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Never said they should be seeded based off what they "could" have won. Actually, don't think anyone has.

They'll most likely go into the draw with a 12-8 record and undoubtedly the toughest schedule in the sectional. A team like Leesburg who plays in a weaker conference, and lost an atrocious Clermont Northeastern team, will be seeded higher although they haven't really did anything to deserve it.

The SOC 2 being stronger than the shac this year is almost as debateable as the soc 1 and 2 argument. Soc 2 is way down this year and shouldn't be given espn sec hype in speculation of the draw.

[Western24]

Havent did anything to deserve it? Sure they have, they have won games simple. Have they won them all? Have they won every game they were suppose to? Nope they haven't but they have won games. More then Webster therefore they deserve it.

[juanmorales]

SW and the SHAC schools get treated like the red headed stepchild in this Sectional. But that's just how it is. Going to have to roll the ball out and play.

[bbjunky81]

Havent did anything to deserve it? Sure they have, they have won games simple. Have they won them all? Have they won every game they were suppose to? Nope they haven't but they have won games. More then Webster therefore they deserve it.

I don't know why I really try to argue it with you, you're as hard headed as a mule. Yes, Leesburg has won more games. But who have they beat that's good? How many teams have they beat that even has a WINNING RECORD? Look that up, the number will astonish you.

I get it, you give no respect to strength of schedule. Thank god you're not on the board for OHSAA football rankings otherwise teams would only want to play cupcake schedules and never challenge themselves.

[Western24]

I'll take that as a compliment. However, SOS is important but it does nothing for you to have a good SOS and lose those games that make your schedule tough. You should not get rewarded for losing to good teams close. You get rewarded for beating those good teams, and winning the games that you are suppose to win. Simple!

[bbjunky81]

I'll take that as a compliment. However, SOS is important but it does nothing for you to have a good SOS and lose those games that make your schedule tough. You should not get rewarded for losing to good teams close. You get rewarded for beating those good teams, and winning the games that you are suppose to win. Simple!

Win @ Wheelersburg would be incredibly valuable then, right? 2 wins against Minford (#24 on pfloyd's list) pretty valuable right? Win @ Notre Dame pretty valuable, right? You're acting like they've lost every single game against every single good opponent. Hell, they could be the only win vs. Oak Hill and you'd say "NO! NO! They're 9-7! If they play a good schedule they have to go undefeated to get any respect!"

I'm anxious to hear your whining/complaining after the coaches seed Webster over Western.... I have a feeling I know what you'll be saying

[Western24]

You wont hear me say anything after the draw. The draw is out of our control. Im just stating that you are over hyping a Webster team that is 8-8. Sure they play a tough schedule and all the wins that you just talked about are great wins... But their record is still 8-8. They don't play a schedule that is THAT much tougher then Western. According to "Pfloyds list" Western has played teams that are ranked: #14, #17, #19, #22, #25, #27, #36, #40, #48, #53,#61, and #67. That comes an average ranked opponent of #35.75. Webster has played teams that are ranked: 7, 14, 16, 21, 22, 24, 25, 27, 33, 62, 63, 66. Which is an average ranked opponent of 31.7. In my opinion that is not a huge SOS difference. Is it really to you?

[bleed_blue]

Let's get back to seeding. Is East worthy of a better seed the SW?

Personally I don't think so, if the entire season is brought into account. Ever since Scott went down with an injury they've been a completely different team - waxed by Notre Dame and Clay at home by good margins. The win vs. Eastern Pike definitely salvaged an argument somewhat, but the horrific loss to Ironton St. Joe who is nottttttttttttt good (Northwest even beat them), has to be taken into account somewhat.

The seeding should be evaluated by season long games/wins/losses and teams should be evaluated at the draw, and this last month should account into East's seeding.

With that said, East posters will disagree, and I'm fine with that. We have two different opinions on the subject, and won't be able to convince each other otherwise so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the coaches think

East has some pretty good wins against Clay @ Clay, Minford on a neutral court, Western @ Western, Eastern, and not to mention the beat Webster heads up. That would seem to me would warrant East to be seeded above Webster.

[TheSportsGuy]

I have always felt that a few things should weigh most heavily when seeding occurs:

1. Body of work
2. SOS or games of comparison WITHIN the sectional
3. Good wins vs bad losses

I don't think many of you are truly giving the coaches much credit for their opinions. I think they do a better job most of the time than we think.

I have always felt like SW and SHAC schools would be more fairly assessed if they played more teams within the sectional. Fairfield beating ND means more than beating a good team from somewhere else. Who else have they beaten in this sectional? Manchester and White oak.

SW has and had the chance to prove how much better they would be compared to their record by playing 3 SOC I teams. They only won 1 of those games and it was the earliest in the season of the 3.

Play and beat teams in this sectional and it would be hard to argue not seeding you better. Less speculation and more reality.

There is no way you can make a case for SW over East using any of this logic. As far as the old small floor crap, East has more league losses at home than on the road this season. I think they are better on the road, and not having Scott makes the small floor even less of an issue.

They are 3-4 in the last 7, those were crammed into just the last 2 weeks. They lost Scott after the 1st game in that stretch. They have had to adjust. Still a much better resume than SW.

The Tartans have beat every team in the top 9 of this sectional, but Peebles (lost by 9, 4th game that week), Fairfield (haven't played), and ND (play again after the draw).

[Mailman]

I do agree the loss to St. Joe is a BAD LOSS. East has won 3/4 games without Scott though, I do think you get SW on a bigger floor they beat East.

I agree, I think they do too. They had a chance to win @ East but couldn't pull it out, Scott was a huge matchup problem for the Jeeps. Even last year a not-as-good South Webster team beat the #1 seeded East on a large floor (@ South Webster). The gym makes a hugeeeeee difference for East.

Looking at their schedule since Scott went down they have:

Wins vs: Eastern, Western, Manchester
Losses vs: Notre Dame, St Joe, Peebles, Clay

3-4 record, obviously a different team as they were 8-2 before Scott went down.

Scott played in the ND game

[js7_22]

I do agree the loss to St. Joe is a BAD LOSS. East has won 3/4 games without Scott though, I do think you get SW on a bigger floor they beat East.

I agree, I think they do too. They had a chance to win @ East but couldn't pull it out, Scott was a huge matchup problem for the Jeeps. Even last year a not-as-good South Webster team beat the #1 seeded East on a large floor (@ South Webster). The gym makes a hugeeeeee difference for East.

Looking at their schedule since Scott went down they have:

Wins vs: Eastern, Western, Manchester
Losses vs: Notre Dame, St Joe, Peebles, Clay

3-4 record, obviously a different team as they were 8-2 before Scott went down.

Scott played in the ND game

I thought the same thing... he actually played a lot too.