State Tournament 2018

[LucasDavenport]

82-78 Final. Solon.

Tomorrow night #1 Solon vs #2 Moeller.

[LucasDavenport]

Attendance 7981.

[LucasDavenport]

Attendance after 8 games.

68,529. Average of 8,566

[LucasDavenport]

Last years attendance after 8 games:

74,936

Average of 9,367

[LucasDavenport]

Saturday is set.

10:45 — #9 Cornerstone Christian (21-7) vs Marion Local (24-4)

2:00 — #2 Deer Park (28-0) vs #10 Africentric (21-6)

5:15 — #5 Trotwood Madison (26-3) vs #9 Akron St Vincent St Mary (20-8)

8:30 — #1 Solon (27-1) vs #2 Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller (26-3)

[formerfcfan]

Attendance for Pickerington Central and Solon was 7981. 7981. Solon, who is playing for its first basketball state title ever and who won the AP title (I believe) and Pickerington Central, who played the entirety of this season without their UNC signee at point guard and may as well be considered to be the Cinderella of the Division I tournament (not to mention is a 30 minute drive from the Schott) brought 7981 for the PRIME TIME game. By contrast, Marion Local and Pandora-Gilboa brought an extra thousand and some change for a mid-day game. PC-Solon brought only 600 more fans than the game that had tiny, supposedly AAU glorified Cornerstone Christian playing in it yesterday.

I don't ever want to hear "private schools don't bring fans" when the all-public D1 semi-final was in the bottom half of attendance of the eight semifinal games. Even Wellington-Lutheran East last year brought more fans! The worst attended game last year had more fans than a D1 semi-final game this year.

[LucasDavenport]

I understand your point but to use one game as an example to cover the whole point is a little bit of a stretch.

This was at last year’s state volleyball tournament

One side is private. First picture

Second side is public.

It’s more than basketball.

[LucasDavenport]

It’s a bad argument from a $ standpoint anyway. The television contract is in place and private schools being in the state tournament won’t change that $ from rolling in.

I enjoy seeing the towns support their teams at the tournament. Moeller is private and they show up big time. The game I remember most was Zanesville v Westerville North in mid 90s. Fun.

[formerfcfan]

I understand your point but to use one game as an example to cover the whole point is a little bit of a stretch.

This was at last year’s state volleyball tournament

One side is private. First picture

Second side is public.

It’s more than basketball.

For years and years, ad nauseaum unto ad infinitum, the complaint was that private schools and urban schools don't bring fans. Usually that complaint is less out of fan interest, and instead leveraged as an argument of "they [private school] don't belong here [state tournament]." Now we have two D1 publics, both of which are middle/upper-middle class communities where both teams - as cliched as it may sound - literally had unbelievable and accomplished seasons (one had their star player out for the whole year, the other had the best team ever in school history) and they brought less fans than what was the worst attended game across all divisions last year. While one is up in Cuyahoga County, the other was a short drive away.

I don't think it's a private school issue. I don't think it's an urban school issue. I don't think it's a big school vs small school issue. Honestly, I think it is a decreased interest in amateur athletics issue. That, or the OHSAA basketball tournament - in terms of value of ticket (how much you pay for how much you watch) - needs some readjustment.

8.5% decline in semifinals attendance this year (2018: 68,529; 2017: 74,966). Last year's semifinals stage was an even 50-50 (8 to 8) public-private split. This year's semifinals stage was a 69-31 (11 to 5) public-private split. Even if you were to just ascribe Africentric and Deer Park as "private schools" (even though they aren't), for S's and G's, that's still 9 to 7 public advantage.

Again... not saying that public schools crapped the bed, necessarily. My larger point, even past my ranting about PC-Solon, is that there must be more to the picture than simple "private schools don't bring fans." One speculation I have is these games just are not bringing in the average fan anymore.

- - - - - - - -

Regarding the photos; true, although New Bremen was the only MAC school at that point to not have won a state title whereas STA has a lot of state titles. Maybe not necessarily jaded on the part of STA, but maybe not worth taking the time off of work if you're the parent of a non-volleyball student to drive all the way to Dayton?

[formerfcfan]

Not to twist or contort the thread down a particular direction, but just spitballing a thought here...

...did Competitive Balance indirectly hurt the attendance of this year's semifinals game?

Consider this: if Lutheran East were not moved up to D3, then the winner of Triway/Canton Central Catholic (who generally brings a fair share of fans) would have played in the semifinal against Deer Park. Also, if Harvest Prep were not moved up to D3, then the winner of Wheelersburg/Garaway would have played in the semifinal against Africentric. (Africentric was going to be D3 on pure EMIS, alone.)

Lutheran East and Cornerstone Christian in the same D4 region... one cancels the other out in semifinal representation. Harvest Prep knocks out Berlin Hiland, but Wheelersburg/Garaway + Triway/CCC in the two D3 semifinals would've made up the difference of no Hiland (I personally believe.)

I recognize that, to some extent, this may be a specious thought. But, I do think that this could be something that the folks at the OHSAA will mull over in the offseason - that is, if attendance really is such a concern.

[LucasDavenport]

I don’t think the argument is Public vs Private either as I doubt most people feel negatively towards Moeller or St X or Kettering Alter. It’s the proliferation of the charter schools or magnet schools or whatever you want to call them. The community hasn’t been established nor has the traditions and it stings to be defeated by one of those. In 05 when Africentric defeated us in The Barn the amount of people there to cheer for Africentric was around 100. It sharpened the edge of that defeat. Losing to FCA in the 13 Regional Finals didn’t feel the same. They filled their side of the gym at Ohio Dominican.

I think it’s more in depth than public vs private.

[LucasDavenport]

Your points have merit. I enjoyed reading the Competitive Balance points. You are on to something there.

[formerfcfan]

I don’t think the argument is Public vs Private either as I doubt most people feel negatively towards Moeller or St X or Kettering Alter. It’s the proliferation of the charter schools or magnet schools or whatever you want to call them. The community hasn’t been established nor has the traditions and it stings to be defeated by one of those. In 05 when Africentric defeated us in The Barn the amount of people there to cheer for Africentric was around 100. It sharpened the edge of that defeat. Losing to FCA in the 13 Regional Finals didn’t feel the same. They filled their side of the gym at Ohio Dominican.

I think it’s more in depth than public vs private.

I would have to agree 100% (or near 100%) with this comment.

I just want to quickly touch on a few of the "culprit" (air quotes, not direct quote) schools. I guess I'm explaining these schools for the sake of anyone reading this thread, and not so much to start a debate. In case anyone was curious about the following schools (because I'm familiar with them...)

Africentric will probably never accrue that large of a following, but I think the reasons for such are beneath the surface. It's a lottery school, it's a school that has literally changed locations in the difference of a 15-20 minute drive. Being a specialized school with lottery admissions, in one of the largest districts in Ohio, where the only sport that has any traction are the hoops, coupled with it serving a populace that by and large experiences some form of transience in either the home or educational life, I doubt that their fan base will ever really develop into a cogent following where parents of alumni are still coming to games long after their kids have graduated. Doesn't mean they're bad people, doesn't mean they don't care, of course, but the very nature of the school and its situation - along with the situations of probably a lot of the families (hard-working but stretched thin) - have made it impossible for it to really develop a fanbase.

Harvest Prep is slowly, but surely, developing a better fanbase in terms of traveling and attendance. I remember watching Prep precisely the year that Mike Thornton (the slimeball coach who was also leading the Africentric '05 team who saw their title taken away) was in his last year there before the OHSAA came down on HP ('10-11.) Prep brought literally five fans. It actually has gotten a lot better, as they're bringing fans in the hundred or so category for their road league games I've caught. I think that number would be higher if not for the fact it's basically a foregone conclusion that Prep is going to beat FC by 20 or that they'll 100-piece Millersport. For those who may or may not know, the school is tethered to World Harvest Church (Rev. Rod Parsley.) The school is relatively young, as it has very recently passed what would be time marker that separates the first generation of HP alumni from the second generation. They're starting to see HP alumni sending their kids there, too.

Wellington School - the best way to explain this school is it really isn't a private school that has the traditional athletics model that our society is kind of socialized into, nor do they really have as much of a sports fan base in their community as some of the other schools in their league do. To explain further: the school doesn't have football, and it doesn't have volleyball. So right off the bat, the two primary fall sports for each gender at 99% of schools don't even exist there... which makes it somewhat difficult to really hop on the spirit train when you can't even make yourself athletically significant against your league until ~December when basketball starts (because really, who cares about soccer and golf outside of one or two schools in the MSL-Cardinal?) Wellington is also a Lacrosse, Field Hockey, Tennis, Golf and Soccer school - a la country club sports school. Basketball program is pretty good, as they're coached by the former guy at Ohio Dominican, but it is definitely not thought of as "the sport" there.

[LucasDavenport]

Good stuff. I learned some things tonight. Thank you.

[formerfcfan]

Thanks for the updates and the conversation. The basketball forum has been a graveyard all day.

[Truth&fiction]

Good stuff. I learned some things tonight. Thank you.

Really appreciate the running updates . Question , is there any TV coverage for the Finals ? Sports Channel and STO has done those a few years back . Back in the day Channel 4 did the finals as I recalled .

[Snowman]

It's on Spectrum Sports but there might be a way to live stream it if you don't have Spectrum.

http://ohsaa.org/Sports-Tournaments/Bas ... t-Coverage

[LucasDavenport]

]Marion Local 5
Cornerstone 2. 5:00

[LucasDavenport]

9-8 ML. 2:45

[LucasDavenport]

13-12 ML. 1:20