The State of the Marshall Football Program

Peake
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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Peake »

My point to you is, you are making this way too personal. I don't agree with you and you don't agree with me, I can live with that.

I would like to see your proof of Coach Pruett being a "crook" as you put it. Let me see hard evidence.

Sad part is when they come for your head ,as they did Pruett's you are in a sinking boat by yourself. No one wants to go down with you.


What does any of this mean? Come for my head? I am not following your reasoning here. If you are implying that I am the only one who has this opinion, than you need to go read other message boards.

I am not saying any of it is right, but it is how it works in the CFB world.

Will he have a banner season next season, I guess it matters what your definition of "banner" is. Talent? Please feel free to show me where all of this talent is on the roster (see point #1 in first post).

I have nothing against Snyder, he is a nice person from being around him for a couple years, but he has had four years to show progress, and I see none. Stop making this so personal.


marshallman
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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by marshallman »

I played for Randal and Parrish at Marshall. Randal was a balanced attack. Parrish was called "air Parrish." Same players but a different system. Randal was going 3-7 and Parrish produced 6-5 first winning season in 20 years. I like to see progress too. Which is: 4-8 to 6-6 to 8-4 to10-2. Not- 3-9, 4-8, 4-8, 4-8.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by ballparent »

peake wrote:85,

That is not true. I know of many D-1 programs that still wanted him regardless of his problems. He choose Marshall because he could play right away.

Please don't be so blind that you can't see the forest through all of the tree's. I was no comparing JT and Pruett, you are taking it out of context, I was pointing out that even JT (who 99% of people worship on this board) is not without corruption in his own program.

from usatoday:

Smith reportedly used booster money for Clarett's phone bill
CLEVELAND (AP) — Suspended Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith used money he accepted from a booster to pay for a cell phone his mother obtained for former Buckeye tailback Maurice Clarett, a newspaper reported Tuesday.
The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer cites multiple sources at Ohio State and close to Smith in its report on the money Smith received from booster Robert Q. Baker.

I am just saying that Pruett did an outstanding job coaching Marshall.

BTW, I saw a special on ESPN showing how players do their interviews and introductions for games. They say several different things, one of which Moss said Marshall.

This topic is going way off subject.


This is the link to the article referred to in the post where you can read the article in it's entirety:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2005-01-11-osu-smith-clarett_x.htm

But as you can see from the title the word Reportedly is used....
"Smith reportedly used booster money for Clarett's phone bill"
Granted Smith received a suspension but it was never specifically given as to these reported charges and he had other issues to deal with at the time and the suspension would have been incurred for other offenses.

As for this quote made by Mouth's Better Half...and your response....

Mouth's Better Half Quote:
Sad part is when they come for your head ,as they did Pruett's you are in a sinking boat by yourself. No one wants to go down with you.


peake response:
What does any of this mean? Come for my head? I am not following your reasoning here. If you are implying that I am the only one who has this opinion, than you need to go read other message boards.


You're right, you're not following her reasoning, she was implying nothing towards you but inferred that when the time came when Pruett was accused of wrongdoing, any of his accomplices, whether boosters or whoever were no where to be found or there to defend him. As for Pruett's innocence it is still out for decision, the following is an excerpt from the article as well as the link:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/08/new-uva-defensive-coordinator-good-fit

The feel-good story of a coach rejuvenated in the autumn of his career was interrupted last week by allegations from Pruett's time as head coach at Marshall University. Sworn affidavits in a civil lawsuit filed by the school's former compliance director, David Ridpath, tied Pruett to an academic scandal and jobs program that drew sanctions from the NCAA.

In a conference call with reporters last week - the only time since media day Pruett was available for an interview - he said he couldn't comment on the lawsuit.

"Hopefully, one day you'll get your day in court and see what happens," Pruett said.

Pruett gave a sworn deposition in May in which he "vigorously" denied the allegations that he helped rig grades and that he was involved in a summer jobs program in which incoming players were paid $25 an hour but were forced to sign statements indicating they made $12.50. The NCAA penalized Marshall for academic fraud and lack of institutional control in 2001, although Pruett was not named in the report.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Peake »

I agree with you 100% marshallman. It is not personal, just business.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Peake »

This is a post on herdnation by username Gochneaur645:

So Snyder appears to be back. I believe this is a terrible decision from an inept administration that will continue to set Marshall football back and waste the great talent we have coming back next year. I am appalled that letting Snyder go didn't even appear to be a consideration among the higher-ups.

That being said, I will be at all six home games in 2009 as well as the games in Morgantown and Blacksburg, cheering for the Herd. However, it won't be without conflicting emotion:

I believed after the UCF debacle that Snyder would be gone if we lost to Rice and Tulsa. Convinced that he is a terrible coach, I believed that this would have been the best thing for the long-term health of Marshall football. Therefore, the cold, rational part of me was willing to sacrifice a 6-6 season with a rinky-dink bowl game (more on this later) for a 4-8 season that would result in the loss of what I believe to be the problem.

But a funny thing happened when I turned on the Rice game...I was rooting for the Herd. Even though I was utterly convinced that losing would be best in the long-term, I couldn't help but root for Marshall. I am still hoarse from yelling for the Herd at the Tulsa game.

Anyway, I think the point of that story was to maybe help those disallusioned with the program understand how the 05's of the board can still be so loyal.

On the other side, hopefully the 05's of the board can understand why others have reached the level of frustration that has led them to pull their time and money out of Marshall football.

Like I said, I'll be at every home game year as well as the two close road games. But I don't have a wife or kids that require my time or money. I live in Huntington so I don't have to worry about gas money, hotel costs, or missing work in order to attend games. I can't judge anybody, even the most die-hard Herd fan, for choosing to prioritize other things in life over what has become an (let's face it) inept program.

I hate to use such a simple analogy, but we live in a capitalistic country. Most companies that put out good products succeed, and most that put out bad products do not. Money talks. We as fans have little voice in our "company" other than our money. I can't judge anybody for not continuing to economically support what after 4 years has proven to be a very very bad "company."

Anyway, my feelings and my feelings of others' feelings aside...here's why I believe that Snyder is not and will never be the answer at Marshall and why you, the loyal Herd fan, should not be satisfied with a 6-6 or even a 7-5 season in 2009 under Snyder:

First of all, what is our ultimate goal for our football team? I would say that it is to eventually go to a BCS game. I know most of us hate the BCS, but as of right now, going to and winning a BCS game is the ultimate ceiling for any team not in the "big six" conferences. For those who think this is an unreasonable goal, let me remind you that if what we did in 1999 would have been replicated just half a decade later under different rules, little ol' Marshall would have been playing in a BCS game.

Mark Snyder is incapable of ever leading Marshall to a BCS game.

He has had 4 years and hasn't been able to lead us to even the New Orleans Bowl. Sit down and think about that. It only requires going 4-4 or 5-3 (depending on the year) in one of the worst conferences in the country to become bowl-eligible. Conference USA is the 11th rated conference in the country this year. The MAC is 8th. We have failed to break even in this pathetic conference 3 out of 4 times (the exception being 4-4 in '06 with the leading rusher in last year's Super Bowl on our team.)

The scary part to me is next year's schedule. We trade out one BCS game for a home date against Bowling Green. We also trade out Houston, Tulsa, and Rice for SMU, Tulane, and UTEP. Without a doubt, that is a much weaker schedule. There is a very good chance that this year's team would have gone 6-6 with that schedule.

Why is that scary you ask? It's scary because even with no real progress whatsoever, we could reach or get past that magical and awe-inspiring (excuse me while I puke) 6-6 record.

And that will be viewed as progress.

The higher-ups will point to reaching 6-6 and playing in a bowl game as evidence that Snyder is doing a good job. Even most fans will trick themselves into thinking that things are headed in the right direction.

That is not a good thing. I think one of the most dangerous things in any aspect of life is believing that progress is being made when in fact there is none at all.

Why should we be happy with 6-6 in year 5? I would have been thrilled with it by year 2. Content with it by year 3. Mildly satisfied if it would have happened this year.

But it didn't.

56.67% of FCS teams go to a bowl game each year. We have failed to be a part of that 4 straight years. We have only come close once. 78.33% of teams have appeared in or will appear in a bowl game from 2005-2008. We are part of the 21.67%.

So even if we do go 6-6 next year, what's that going to prove? Going to a bowl game last year didn't appear to be much of a stepping stone for Memphis, Southern Miss, or UCF.

It will take a miracle in my opinion for this team next year to not go to a bowl game with the talent we have coming back. But it should have been much more than that. This year, or last year, or the year before that was the time to meet the bare minimum. Next year was supposed to be the time to take a true step forward.

Yes, Snyder has been an above average recruiter, at least on paper. But the man obviously can not coach at this level.

There is no excuse for the '05 Kansas State gaffe. There is no excuse for not pounding the ball in at the end of regulation against So Miss in '05. There is no excuse for settling for the FG against WVU in '07.

THERE SHOULD NEVER BE AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT HAPPENED AGAINST NEW HAMPSHIRE.

There is certainly no excuse for what happened against UAB or UCF this year.

On top of those motivational or decision-making gaffes, we have continued to shoot ourselves in the foot at the most inopportune times with other gaffes such as running the wrong routes or just godawful special teams. That all comes down to coaching as well.

The man has been given chance after to chance to prove himself, and he has continually failed. The mentality of playing not to lose might work fine at a place with superior talent to everyone, but not a non-BCS school.

Look at the Utahs and Boise States of the world. They got to the BCS with aggressive offenses and attitudes that were designed to step on their opponents' throat from the first minute of the game and not let up.

It took Urban Meyer one year to turn Bowling Green from a 2-9 team to an 8-3 team. It took him one year to turn Utah from a 5-6 team to a 10-2 team. And then only one more year to go 12-0 and win the Fiesta Bowl.

Obviously we're not expecting Urban Meyer-like results here. But the man had 5 or 6 game turnarounds in just one year at two different places.

And now we're going to be happy next year when it's taken our guy 5 years to perform a 2 game turnaround?

Snyder has turned average teams into awful ones, slightly above average teams into slightly below average teams, and next year will probably turn a very above average team into an average one. I don't care how much talent he brings in, he will never be the coach to lead us where we want to go.

If you're happy with the occasional 6-6 year or 7-5 year, then so be it. But I for one am not.


I agree with about 90% of what is being said, though I question Snyder being an above average recruiter.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Mouth's Better Half »

You are misunderstanding me. This is not personal to me because I know Coach. As you have stated you do too.

If Coach Synder had done illegal things to recruit players and keep them I was making the point that when THEY - ( people in charge ) come for YOUR HEAD - ( Head Coach ) no one wants to go down with you. I wasn't referring to you personally.

I will tell you evidence of Pruett's illegal stuff but not on here. You'l have to PM me. He hung around after he wasn't head coach anymore , he showed up at practice, and came into the locker room. He advertised, he had a restaurent, as far as I know. He wasn't going away. Coach dealt with that for his first year.

Well, let's just agree to disagree. But it is not personal. I believe Mark is a good coach and you can certainly believe that he is not.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by madpolecat »

Look at the Utahs and Boise States of the world. They got to the BCS with aggressive offenses and attitudes that were designed to step on their opponents' throat from the first minute of the game and not let up.


That's the kind of ball that Marshall was playing under Pruett and all those guys with the University of Florida coaching pedigree...


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by henrysteele »

Peake:

I have certainly been to my share of Big Green functions. The 2008 event in Ashland, KY was FREE. Where else could you meet Coach Snyder, Coach Jones and Coach Chadwick and even eat for free? You can also toss in a chance to meet Marco, the cheerleaders and Albert McClellan. Plus, you could have won one of the nice door prizes.

http://www.bvaughn.com/biggreencoaches.htm

Coach Snyder was there for ANY fan that wanted to speak to him or get a photo. Yet, hardly a soul was there at the Big Green event.

The spring game at Marshall is way different that other D1 schools. After the end of the game, Snyder allows fans down on the field to speak with players and coaches. You won't get that at Ohio State!

You are the ONLY person in the Tri-State that I have heard complain about Coach Snyder being unavailable. Of all the college coaches that I have met in my days, no coach is more approachable or outgoing than Mark Snyder. If you would like Coach Snyder to visit a school, then simply give his office a call.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by seofan_via_dublin »

henrysteele wrote:Peake:

The spring game at Marshall is way different that other D1 schools. After the end of the game, Snyder allows fans down on the field to speak with players and coaches. You won't get that at Ohio State!


You don't get 73,000+ fans at the Green and White Spring game either.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by henrysteele »

seofan_via_dublin:

True, but Tressel would never allow that type of access if 10,000 fans showed up for OSU's spring game.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by seofan_via_dublin »

Not true,

In 4 out of the past 5 seasons, fans have been able to have a meet and greet session
before an open practice, often opening the players up for 2 hours before the practice.
In each circumstance, over 15,000 people have shown up to meet just over 120 students and coaches.

If you want to meet and greet the Buckeye players you can.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Peake »

Let me start my post by saying that Snyder is a nice person. Now that that's out of the way we can have an adult conversation.

Tell me one job in America where you don't get fired if you don't produce. Tell me one job in America where you can keep a job if you are not productive but you are a nice person in return.

I am tired of hearing what a nice person Snyder is. No one is saying he isn't.

His job is to win, period. There are other aspects of his job he must do as well (recruit, graduate players, etc.), but his main objective is to win games. He hasn't done that.

If I were a Big Green Member and I donated to the program, I would be p*ssed at the product I was investing my money in. I recently made my first donation to the Michigan Athletic Scholarship Fund, and if I don't get a good return on the product I am investing in, I am not going to be happy.

The world is a scary place, but many of us act like we don't know how it works. We are expected to produce and be effective at what we do. Snyder is not winning games and there are no longer any excuses. He is not producing, nor is he being effective in his #1 objective as a coach. He was hired to win football games. If (insert name here) did not win,show progress, or improvement by year 4, they would be let go, PERIOD!

The 2008 event in Ashland, KY was FREE. Where else could you meet Coach Snyder, Coach Jones and Coach Chadwick and even eat for free?


Key word here is Marshall sponsored event. I am not talking about anything that has to do with a Marshall sponsored event. I am talking about Marshall making an investment in our communities. Pruett brought players to my former school on more than one occasion (including Chad Pennington being the speaker at our academic reception). I saw players and coaches at youth league games when Pruett was there. People see those things and that shows them that Marshall is interested in the community just as much as the community is interested in supporting Marshall.

You also need to read my posts more closely.
I could be wrong about the community thing, but being around kids at Marshall sponserd functions is different then actually going into schools ( i could be wrong JMHO). I am saying that he needs to be more visible in the communities, so when he is struggling, people are behind him.



First---I said I could be wrong. I will accept being wrong or at least having a different opinion than others on here, but at least tell me about something that has to do with Marshall going into the community.

you said
Yet, hardly a soul was there at the Big Green event.


This is a bad sign.

you said
The spring game at Marshall is way different that other D1 schools


Let me ask you first, how many spring games have you been to outside of Marshall or OSU? If you haven't than how can you talk to me about how it is different? I was at Michigan's two years ago, and everyone was allowed on the field ( that was 30,000 plus), and DUbs said it does happen at OSU. Take into account say somewhere like Tennessee packing their stadium and allowing everyone on the field.

I am the ONLY person? Ok, first let me know how deep is your circle of friends? I am not talking about him being available, I am talking about Snyder going to the communities without them having to come to him. That is wonderful he is a good person, but so are many of the coaches that you will come into contact with, and that doesn't make them a great coach. You want a nice person to be your coach, then hire Mother Teresa.

To that certain someone who finds it neccessary to respond to me, even though I never addressed them, I don't need your help interpreting what someone else has to say. In the adult world, we let other people speak for themselves :122249


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by ballparent »

peake quote:
To that certain someone who finds it neccessary to respond to me, even though I never addressed them, I don't need your help interpreting what someone else has to say. In the adult world, we let other people speak for themselves


I responded...

1.
because a reference was made to Ohio State where once again a direct link to the post was not provided which allows the reader to verify the original source, the age of the original article and it's validity. This is something that should be provided, and makes a big difference if the article is current or one that is three years old as this reference was.

2.
responses to posts can be made to anyone and any comment, as long as it stays pertinent to the flow of the topic.

3.
"I don't need your help interpreting what someone else has to say."...well, yes you do, as Mouth's Better Half also clarified to you.

4.
"In the adult world, we let other people speak for themselves."....yes as adults, we do, we should use our own words and if we choose to not do so, then at least cite the original author and give them credit. :122249


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by NYBuckeye96 »

Marshall's biggest mistake was leaving the Mid American Conference! Not only was it bad for the team, it was bad for the fans. Marshall fans travelled in mass to Marshall away games in the MAC. The majority of road games were within a reasonable drive for a college football conference. The rivalries were natural and localized.

Conference USA is a bunch of random schools that have no natural rivalries that are scattered throughout many states and thrown together with nothing in common with each other except for the fact that they have athletic programs that may be slightly better then a conference like the MAC.



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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by seofan_via_dublin »

If any coach other than Mark Snyder was the head coach at Marshall,
and the results were the same as they have been under Snyder,
more people would be outraged and more people would be calling for the coaches head.

I understand, Mark is an awsome individual, with close family ties, and he grew up in the area.
His sentimental value is the only reason he is still the coach at Marshall.

I won't attack Mark, he is a great individual. I won't attack his coaching ability, he is a very good coach.

I think a lot of people on this site though, need to separate themselves from the local appeal of coach Snyder.

Marshall can't and won't win with local talent. With their location, lack of facilities, and loss of national standing,
they need a great recruiter to sell the talent on why they should choose Huntington, WV, more than they need a great coach.

Why should a prospect that is on par with C-USA talent, that is going to commit to a C-USA school, come to Huntington
when they could go to one of at least 6 more appealing cities to play.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by Peake »

because a reference was made to Ohio State where once again a direct link to the post was not provided which allows the reader to verify the original source, the age of the original article and it's validity. This is something that should be provided, and makes a big difference if the article is current or one that is three years old as this reference was.


In your opinion it should be provided, there is no rule aside from the one that you have choosen to administer on this site, saying that this is how a site should or shouldn't be cited if cited at all. People are lazy, do a little research and find out yourself where it came form. Took me all of 5 seconds to find it. Validity----ok, the article was written at the time of the occurence.----BTW, Coach Tress suspended Smith for the Bowl game and the opening game the next season, must have been for something else.

"I don't need your help interpreting what someone else has to say."...well, yes you do, as Mouth's Better Half also clarified to you.


Actually I needed an explination from the actual poster, not someone who didn't actually speak(type) the words themselves, thus allowing for that person to know exactly what he/she was getting to. If I wanted an explination from the person that did respond, I would have asked for one. I appreciate that MBH responded as I requested. I don't need someone else doing it for them.

"In the adult world, we let other people speak for themselves."....yes as adults, we do, we should use our own words and if we choose to not do so, then at least cite the original author and give them credit.


This was a direct comment made towards myself, the only thing you can do is interpret the way you feel you understand it.
Last edited by Peake on Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by 85inside »

actually, people of this website dont "need" to do anything. everyone is entitled to his opinion. Heck ever read anything Peake writes on here? it's his opinion and he is entitled.
How about this. Lets let the guy finish his contract out. Heck, there's a novelty. If he doesnt win next year, then fire the guy. Everybody gets so ticked off when coaches leave early, but noone gets mad when a University doesnt let a guy finish his contract.
I believe Marshall did the right thing. If he loses again next year, then i suggest a 3 year contract for the next guy. that way they can just fire the coach every 3 years, instead of waiting for 5.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by earp »

Like I said earlier,Marshall does not buy out contracts! ;-)


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by purpleblood1 »

Let's put in prospective Snyder s**ks as a head coach. Probably a good position coach, but in over his head. If you all would go back to where Peake stated that Snyder isn't out at HS games, he didn't say that he was out a mandatory Big Green functions that are written into contracts. He should have been fired, enough said.


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Re: The State of the Marshall Football Program

Post by 85inside »

yet another "Paeke uninformed poster." I Personally saw Snyder at High school games at Portsmouth Ohio and Ironton Ohio. So, that comment was not true. Try again.


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