2016 Cincinnati Redlegs

[bighead]

2 years in a row for Votto can't hit the first half ? On fire now. Play him minor league first half ! Bring him up 2nd half of season ! LOL

[bighead]

Holy Jocketty ! The 105 million dollar arm ! Homer Bailey is under contract until 2019 ! If he never pitches again he was there ace with a .500 era Cueto/ Latos, Leake/ and Chapman all gone ! But Joketty still there.

[danicalifornia]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ho02.shtml

4.19 career ERA which was dipping most years besides his 2 starts last season...which you can't get over for some reason. He was also very good in his 2 postseason appearances.

Latos was traded for DeSclafani. I'm sure that was a bad move, since Latos has since been traded once and released 3 times in the last year. He also ran down the franchise heavily. DeSclafani has a winning record and a sub-4 ERA for the Reds, while being extremely good since his return from injury this year.

Leake was traded for Duvall. Leake signed a $93 million dollar contract to be average for the Cardinals. Meanwhile, Duvall was an all star and is under team control through 2021, not like that's a big deal or anything.

Cueto was traded for Finnegan, Lamb, and Reed. Cueto signed a $143 million dollar contact that he's going to opt-out of after next year and sign an even bigger one next year. Reed, Finnegan, and Lamb, 3 lefties with high floors and pretty decent ceilings, all under team control through at least 2020.

Chapman was traded for 3 prospects and Cothem. Chapman will sign a big contract in this offseason. 0% chance he would have resigned with the Reds, so why not trade him while you can? Rookie Davis is 7-3 with a 2.85 in AA this year, while Tony Renda is 16-17 on steals between AA and AAA this year with a .314 average and an .804 OPS.

[danicalifornia]

For funsies, let's take away Bailey's $18 million he's making this year from the team's $90.2 million payroll. Then, let's take away the $2.4 million that Duvall, Finnegan, Lamb, and Reed are making combined at the league minimum. You have $20.4 million to spend on any combination of Chapman, Cueto, Latos, and Leake.

Chapman - $11.3 million
Cueto - $15.8 million
Latos - $3 million (after being released 3 times and no one wanted him as an insulting offer...he was released from this deal too)
Leake - $12 million

So you could pick up Latos and one other person with the remaining money. What does that get the Reds? 4-5 more wins? Because you're getting rid of DeSclafani, Finnegan, and Duvall's production. Drop from a top 3 pick in the draft (which is nearly guaranteed to be extremely valuable) to a 7-8 pick (nothing is guaranteed once you get past 5)?

I get the frustration of sitting through a rebuild where it seems like the team isn't trying to win, I sat through the Cubs legit not trying to win for 4 years before it turned around. They had huge contracts that they had to shed. But, through losing and making smart trades, they have built a constant contender.

13 of the Cubs 25 man roster (for tomorrow's game) were acquired in trades since 2010. They have 5 free agents, all whom are valuable, but none signed before the turnaround started. They had 5 top 10 picks between 2011 and 2015 and all but one (2015's Ian Happ, who projects well) have played a major part over the past 162 games for the Cubs.
-2011- #9 Javy Baez
-2012- #6 Albert Almora Jr.
-2013- #2 Kris Bryant
-2014- #4 Kyle Schwarber
Sitting through those years has paid off through patience, great scouting, and straight up losing.

Sorry to make this post a lot about the Cubs...but it's just overall trying to say to be patient and trust the process. Cincinnati doesn't have an insane amount of money to spend, so they have to do it in different ways. Sometimes it doesn't pay off like Bailey's hasn't, but they got a lot of future pieces in their trades over the past 12 months and those should come around in the next couple of years.

I hadn't even mentioned getting Suarez for Simon and Peraza for Frazier (in a way) as 2 other good deals that the Reds have done. It'll turn around and it hasn't even been that long, I mean, it took the Pirates over 20 years. The Reds are in a much better situation than a team like the Brewers.

A pitching staff of DeSclafani, Finnegan, Reed, Iglasias, Lorenzen, Stephenson, de Los Santos, Davis, Cingrani, and Bailey is a pretty solid starting point for a turnaround that should start to show some in 2018 and maybe the back end of next year.

[Chieftain2009]

For funsies, let's take away Bailey's $18 million he's making this year from the team's $90.2 million payroll. Then, let's take away the $2.4 million that Duvall, Finnegan, Lamb, and Reed are making combined at the league minimum. You have $20.4 million to spend on any combination of Chapman, Cueto, Latos, and Leake.

Chapman - $11.3 million
Cueto - $15.8 million
Latos - $3 million (after being released 3 times and no one wanted him as an insulting offer...he was released from this deal too)
Leake - $12 million

So you could pick up Latos and one other person with the remaining money. What does that get the Reds? 4-5 more wins? Because you're getting rid of DeSclafani, Finnegan, and Duvall's production. Drop from a top 3 pick in the draft (which is nearly guaranteed to be extremely valuable) to a 7-8 pick (nothing is guaranteed once you get past 5)?

I get the frustration of sitting through a rebuild where it seems like the team isn't trying to win, I sat through the Cubs legit not trying to win for 4 years before it turned around. They had huge contracts that they had to shed. But, through losing and making smart trades, they have built a constant contender.

13 of the Cubs 25 man roster (for tomorrow's game) were acquired in trades since 2010. They have 5 free agents, all whom are valuable, but none signed before the turnaround started. They had 5 top 10 picks between 2011 and 2015 and all but one (2015's Ian Happ, who projects well) have played a major part over the past 162 games for the Cubs.
-2011- #9 Javy Baez
-2012- #6 Albert Almora Jr.
-2013- #2 Kris Bryant
-2014- #4 Kyle Schwarber
Sitting through those years has paid off through patience, great scouting, and straight up losing.

Sorry to make this post a lot about the Cubs...but it's just overall trying to say to be patient and trust the process. Cincinnati doesn't have an insane amount of money to spend, so they have to do it in different ways. Sometimes it doesn't pay off like Bailey's hasn't, but they got a lot of future pieces in their trades over the past 12 months and those should come around in the next couple of years.

I hadn't even mentioned getting Suarez for Simon and Peraza for Frazier (in a way) as 2 other good deals that the Reds have done. It'll turn around and it hasn't even been that long, I mean, it took the Pirates over 20 years. The Reds are in a much better situation than a team like the Brewers.

A pitching staff of DeSclafani, Finnegan, Reed, Iglasias, Lorenzen, Stephenson, de Los Santos, Davis, Cingrani, and Bailey is a pretty solid starting point for a turnaround that should start to show some in 2018 and maybe the back end of next year.

Good post Dani! I agree with you on all your points and the about the Cubs. It's a rebuilding time, some teams take 5-6 years to rebuild, I honestly think the Reds are 1-2 years away from being a team getting into the Wild Card, and maybe 3 from winning some series in the playoffs. They've gotten some really nice pieces over the last year or so in all their trades. But the other guy in the forum doesn't really understand that I guess.

They've done a really good job of getting younger guys in those trades and developing them as well.

The Reds definitely won the DeSclafani-Latos deal (the first time I saw him pitch I knew he'd eventually be an Ace).

The Reds won the Leake-Duvall deal (Duvall an All-Star and Leake doing subpar)

Cueto deal is still up in the air, but I think in the long run, we won that deal.

The Chapman deal was a win for the Reds too, yeah he was exciting and at times completely untouchable, but there was no way on this earth that he was resigning.

Patience is the key here, they made a single bad deal (Bailey), but he's still young and when he gets healthy he'll be solid at the top of the rotation.

[Chieftain2009]

Reds Minor League Teams:

Louisville Bats (AAA): 49-50 (3rd in Division); I'm not overall concerned with how they're doing as a team just individual players, since a lot of veterans near the end of their career go down and play AAA.

Pensacola Blue Wahoos (AA): 14-13 (3rd in Division); Although the season just started.

Daytona Tortugas (A-Adv.): 14-11 (3rd in Division): Pretty good so far this season.

Dayton Dragons (A): 9-17 (7th in Division): Not great, but another division where you only need to worry about individual players and how they're developing.

Billings Mustangs (Rookie): 20-12 (1st in Division): Great season to this point.

AZL Reds (Rookie): 10-14 (4th in Division): Another where you only need to worry about individual players.

The Reds also have 2 Dominican Summer League Teams. One finished at 21-19 and the other at 12-28.

[bighead]

Bailey ! Don't agree ! Bad move ! Cubs they have a coach ! Cueto ! WOW ! Liked Leake hitter ! Hate the Frazier trade ! Chapman trade was good ! But at this time with the great Votto starting to hit ! Rose / Bench /Morgan / Votto lol no way does not sound right! Cold yes I am! Well why throw rocks at each other ! Were the 3rd worst team in baseball looking up ! Or trying to get out of the basement!

[bighead]

Chapman on the trading blocks already ! And rumor has it Bruce may be gone..

[Chieftain2009]

I haven't seen any rumors about Bruce yet, but I'm guessing they are looking for options for him. The Reds have had a real good start to the second half though, winning all 3 series so far.

[bighead]

500 season would be just fine .

[Chieftain2009]

.500 is probably a stretch, but I would be satisfied with a 10-under season.

[bighead]

I know but it wouldn't be bad ! Chapman a Cub now ,Something not right there ? I mean with Chapman.

[Omega]

I haven't seen any rumors about Bruce yet, but I'm guessing they are looking for options for him. The Reds have had a real good start to the second half though, winning all 3 series so far.

So far so good for the start of the second half. Still, the Reds are on pace to lose 98 games. That pace might accelerate if the Reds further reduce their payroll as the trade deadline approaches.

[Chieftain2009]

Now under 6 days to the trade deadline. It's at 4pm next Monday.

[Chieftain2009]

Another win down, 4 straight series wins to open up the first half.

[bighead]

Bruce on a roll he's tired of the BS ! But will any one bit ! LOL .500 season ?

[danicalifornia]

Bruce should be gone and the Reds should get a nice haul for him, even if it is in a one for one trade. A power LH is vital down the stretch.

Likely destinations : LA Dodgers, Mariners, or Rangers
Possible Sleepers : Chi Cubs (Josh Reddick more likely) , Cardinals, Giants, Indians, Nationals, Astros

The Rangers would be the ideal trade partner for the Reds, as their farm system is brimming with top tier talent. If they could get a Jurickson Profar or Joey Gallo, it would be amazing for the Reds. The Rangers love to make big moves, so I see them as the most likely, even though the rumors are more towards Seattle and LA. Before Toronto got Melvin Upton, Jr this week, I would have said that they would've been the favorite. Bruce's team friendly option (13 M) should also give a boost on the level of prospect that the Reds can score. The Indians are saying that they are out on him, but I still could see them making a move to help their push to October.

I'm not sure if I see any other guys moving besides maybe Ohlendorf. No contenders need a SS right now or I would see Cozart being a hot commodity with how solid he is all around.

Oh and if they finish .500 I'll eat my shoe, lol.

[bighead]

Indians starting to slide the wrong way ! Bruce could help maybe? 500 not out of the question!

[Chieftain2009]

.500 definitely not out of the question with so many games left, but unlikely.

I would be blown away if Bruce isn't traded. Like Dani mentioned, the Rangers and Mariners are very likely. I don't see the Dodgers with their wealth of outfielders, although a lot of them have been injured this year. I could see the Giants trading for him, he put on a show for them in SF this week! He is on a tear right now not missing anything, so the asking price will be super high. I don't know if anyone will give them what they want.

I could see the Indians doing it, but I think Brantley will be back soon enough, and they don't wanna give away their farm system. Of course it would be nice if we kept him, but highly unlikely.

On another note, Joey Votto is tearing the cover off the ball right now, back into the .280's I believe. Anybody see that home run he hit the other night that was as high as his forehead? Geesh!!! Hamilton starting to get comfortable as well as Phillips, Cozart is back to hitting well. And the bullpen, I saw a stat the other night that said since the All-Star break, they have the second best bullpen ERA in the NL. Ever since Igelsias got thrown in down there.

Bailey is back up with the team, which is a good sign.

[bighead]

Bailey the golden arm ! Keep it up Bruce ! But jmo your fly by night !