He Who Took His Talents To South Beach

[Daniel Larusso]

Big Markets
Los Angeles
Dallas
Chicago
Atlanta
Philadelphia
New York
Boston
Miami

[dazed&confused]

4ever,
I feel your pain. It is fantastic for fans to witness players playing their entire career with one team. But for years, ownership basically exercised forced labor on the players. See Curt Flood. But things have swung too far in the opposite direction. Perhaps placing a franchise tag on basketball would be a good beginning.

[Rebels on 3]

I never said fans had everything to do with it but they do have alot to do with big market teams. The way you are trying to explain it is that teams from big cities have big markets and thats not true. Answer this, so why dont the Clippers, Kings, and Warriors have the same size market as the Lakers? They are all from Cali. with large populations. Its because the Lakers have better players and more fans which means more MONEY which mean bigger market. All the other Cali. teams I named are small market teams yet they a right beside the Lakers a large market team. The New York Knicks the jewel of the NBA 5 years ago were considered a small market. Now they have Amare, and Melo and are a big market team, because they sell more seats and have better players. Markets can change no matter the location, google it.

[farmer]

Orlando was down 24 points in the 3rd quarter to come back and win by 3. As LeBron misses the last shot again. As the Heat turned COLD.

[gymrat88]

One last chance to reason with my new friend Rebels on 3:

Perhaps you are confusing market SIZE with market SHARE.

Also, this morening on Mike and Mike in the Morning they went on at length comparing James "decision" with the wat Melo handled the same decision.

They said that to this day James continues to be the best player in the NBA and also the most viliified for the way he handled his decision to opt for free angency. They said he is the most booed player in every arena around the league and it obviously has nothing to do with his talent.

Because Melo told the Nuggets a long time ago of his plans to leave and that he wanted to be traded, he ultimately got his wish and is right where he wants to be, but the team he left had the opportunity to work out a deal that wouldnt leave them in the lurch, obtaining either lesser players, draft picks, or both. As a result, Denver is still at least competitive and Melo got his wish.

Does that sound anything like what James did? I find it refreshing, being labeled a James hater on here, that knowledgable people around this country have the same sense of fairness and right and wrong that I do. There is always a right way and a wrong way to do anything, and I doubt that James will ever see what is left of his reputation restored during his playing days, regardless of how many championships he might win.

I dont hate HIM, but everything inside of me hates WHAT HE DID AND THE WAY HE DID IT. And I am beginning to think I am in the majority in feeling this way, and all the feelings arent just coming out of Cleveland.

I hate to beat a dead horse with this topic and this thread, but I am going to do so anyway.

Let me say this about the way James left: it wasn't perfect, it wasn't pretty, but for him, it was necessary. I have seen countless proofs that LeBron James is generally a loyal human being. He has shown loyalty to his high school, Akron, Ohio, his high school sweetheart, and his friends. People who know him well all say he is extremely loyal, which is one of the main reasons why people in Cleveland thought he would stay at all costs.

Many have thrown the idea out there that James knew he was going to leave Cleveland and play with Wade and Bosh before he was a free agent, hence why he appeared to "quit" in the Boston series. This is my opinion on that:

1) I believe that James could see that Boston was exploiting the weaknesses of the Cavs and they were better than his team: Boston had the better coaches and players. Boston's bigs were far superior to Cleveland's bigs, and Boston's guards were also superior to Cleveland's guards. You could rank the players in that series as 1) James 2) Rondo, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Perkins, and 6) Mo Williams.

2) His elbow played a factor. He shot a left-handed free throw in the Chicago series and he repeatedly held it in the Boston series.

3) The Delonte West rumors couldn't have helped the team chemistry.

I believe these 3 factors= total frustration for James. I'm sure at that point he was either wishing for better players or wishing for a better Cleveland team, but whatever he was thinking in no way, shape, or form was he conspiring with Wade or Bosh.

Did Cleveland try to get players around him so he would stay? Yes. But could they have done a better job? Yes. If Cleveland could have landed Amar'e in the trade where they got Jamison, or if they could have signed Bosh in the off-season, I whole-heartedly believe LeBron would still be in Cleveland. The Cavs could have got Amar'e if they would have traded Hickson, instead they traded for Jamison and left Hickson on the bench for the entire playoffs. Also, Mike Brown and James clashed throughout his tenure in Cleveland and he probably should have been fired years ago.

The fact that James left should come as no surprise, and as far as the way he did, Jim Gray and ESPN should be as much to blame as LeBron. Cleveland and anybody else should have equal hatred for LeBron and his decision as well as hate for ESPN letting it happen.

The media and society LOVES NOTHING MORE THAN THIS: To build someone up, and then tear them down. It creates a story. And if ESPN has a story, they are in business. People like drama. LeBron quietly announcing his decision wouldn't have been drama. gahs- if you hate LeBron for his decision, you should hate ESPN equally.

You and everyone else is doing what the media wants you to do- hate James, because it creates a story. It's juicy. It keeps their network going. I for one will not fall for it.

[Rebels on 3]

Great post gymrat88

[farmer]

Gymrat great to keep sticking up for LeBron being smart. Right after he makes another idiot Tweet. In this case refering to the Heat as soldiers. Then to go out and blow a 24 point led. As LeBron misses again on the last shot.

Then you make the satement about the rumors about Delonte West. Many of those involved LeBron's mother.

You said LeBron showed loyality but he admitted he has always hated Cleveland from his days of growing up in Akron.

To blame Jim Gray is a joke. When he had no idea what LeBron's decision was and LeBron would keep referring to himself in the 3rd person. LeBron is the only person to blame for that mistake.

LeBron is a great talent skills. Good that he can enjoy the nightlife living in Miami instead of concentrating on what goes on during the basketball game. The Heat have a terrible record against teams with winning records and now they will be facing a string of winning teams. But the Heat have added Mike No Defense Bibby to help.

Enjoy LeBron who has no shot he can count on to win the game.

[Rebels on 3]

I just dont know how in the world you can blow a 24 point lead.

[gymrat88]

Gymrat great to keep sticking up for LeBron being smart. Right after he makes another idiot Tweet. In this case refering to the Heat as soldiers. Then to go out and blow a 24 point led. As LeBron misses again on the last shot.

Then you make the satement about the rumors about Delonte West. Many of those involved LeBron's mother.

You said LeBron showed loyality but he admitted he has always hated Cleveland from his days of growing up in Akron.

To blame Jim Gray is a joke. When he had no idea what LeBron's decision was and LeBron would keep referring to himself in the 3rd person. LeBron is the only person to blame for that mistake.

LeBron is a great talent skills. Good that he can enjoy the nightlife living in Miami instead of concentrating on what goes on during the basketball game. The Heat have a terrible record against teams with winning records and now they will be facing a string of winning teams. But the Heat have added Mike No Defense Bibby to help.

Enjoy LeBron who has no shot he can count on to win the game.

farmer- Akron is not Cleveland. Cleveland may be the butt of many jokes from people around the country but Akron has been the butt of Clevelanders jokes for years. To say that Akron is Cleveland is like saying that Dayton is a part of Cincinnati, or that Athens or Lancaster is the same town as Columbus. To do so is just plain ignorant.

I have followed LeBron James ever since he was in High School. I saw him play his final High School game, and from that point on I realized that he has the tools and talent to become one of the greatest players of all time and define a generation of athletes. Cleveland fans were never loyal to LeBron, they were simply loyal to the success and fame that he gave them. Any fan base that could go from loving someone to hating someone in 1 hour's time does not prove to me that LeBron is that horrible, it proves to me that fans are that inconsistent. He was their vehicle to success. When that vehicle took its talents elsewhere, they were mad not because he chose to go to a better team, but because they knew that they wouldn't be in the spotlight anymore. For Dan Gilbert and Cleveland- LeBron was 1 thing to them.....Dollars. This picture that you and everyone else wants to paint about the poor little lamb of Cleveland is a wolf in sheep's clothing. This underdog that you want to portray of people rooting against the Heat and the Cavaliers is not an underdog at all. It is all media driven. And gahs, if you despise this younger generation of athletes, then you should despise what has made this younger generation of athletes the way they are, and that is ESPN.

There is no argument that can be presented that can prove to me that LeBron should be hated and despised by America. He made the unpopular choice, the first of its kind, and for that he is hated.

[Rebels on 3]

Wow gymrat is on it today, he has had 2 of the best post I have ever read on here in less than an hour.

[farmer]

Gymrat I didn't make any statement about Akron is Cleveland. I made the simple statement that Lebron had addmitted that he has always hated Cleveland from his days growing up in Akron. So I guess that makes you ignorant for not being able to READ.

Cleveland fans showed loyalty to LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavs. When he switches teams they showed loyalty to their team. Players come and go. Cleveland loved the Browns but when they went to Baltimore they were no longer the Browns.

No arguement to be despised by people that idiotic Tweet this week about being a the Heat being like Soldiers sure doesn't help.

[Charge]

LeBron needs to take some of his money and use it on getting an education or at least getting someone to read what he tweets before sending it. "He is at war" I didn't know playing a game making millions of dollars was war. I'm sure Pat Tillman's family could explain what war is. LeBron just says dumb things. He hasn't really done anything to get in trouble like a lot of pro athletes have, which I credit him for. He has great talent, he just needs to shut up and play basketball.

[Rebels on 3]

This is my look on the playoffs. I personaly think the Spurs great regular season is a joke. I dont see them beating the Lakers in the west. Also I think the young Thunder could hold their own against the Spurs with the addition of Perkins. In the East it will be crazy. The Heat need to pull it together, there's alot of team in the East that can beat the Heat and have already proven that. The Bulls could make a run in the Eastern playoffs, and also the Magic. But still the two teams to beat will be the Heat and the Celtics. That being said my picks for the finals are.............call me crazy but out of the West the young OKC Thunder. With the leadership of Durant, and a very good PG in Westbrook also the addition of Perkins make the Thunder a dangerous team in the West. The team that I will pick to come out of the East is the Celtics. With the way the season has gone every team in the East has match up problems with the Celtics. I think the only team that can give the Celtics a shot is the Heat even though they couldnt beat them in the regular season. The Celtics are a team built for the playoffs and with all the playoff experience on that team they will be hard to beat.

[gymrat88]

The Heat are 1-8 against the top five teams in the NBA this season and are coming off blowing a 24 point lead and losing to the Magic and then following that up with a 30 point beatdown loss at San Antonio. Maybe three superstars does not a champion make.

In the East alone, I see the Celtics, Bulls, and Magic giving them more than all they want in a series, and the West? Well, they did beat the Lakers once.

A huge bit of irony if the large market Heat dont win as many regular season games as the Cavs did the last two years, and then get bounced from the playoffs early just like the Cavs did. That would pretty much dispell the myth that James had no help in Cleveland.

I thought it funny when a San Antonio fan held up a sign they showed on TV. It said, Hey Lebron! Where are you going to go next?

The "myth" that James had no help in Cleveland is pure fact. If the Heat end up losing early in the playoffs that just tells me that the attitudes need to change along with possibly a coaching change and some more off season acquisitions so they can acquire some better role players to go with the Big 3. But to say that if the Heat lose when the Cavs did in the playoffs proves that LeBron had good players in Cleveland is like comparing apples and oranges.

Personally I don't think the Heat will win the championship this year and if they don't then they should not be considered a failure. Every situation is different and just because Boston won it in their first year with Allen/Pierce/Garnett does not mean the Heat should be expected to win the championship this year.

[farmer]

Here is Jason Whitlocks view of the Heat after blowing the 24 point led to the Magic

Let’s hope Dwight Howard and Chris Paul learn a lesson from the Miami Mess.

It’s a lesson Carmelo Anthony might wish he’d learned before bullying his way onto the New York Knicks roster.

The NBA isn’t AAU hoops. It takes more than two or three super friends to win an NBA title. Players interested in winning at the highest level shouldn’t moonlight as general managers in the offseason.

For seven months, we’ve listened to the enablers and sycophants celebrate LeBron James’ Decision to take his basketball destiny into his own hands and join forces with Miami Heat de facto general manager Dwyane Wade and Toronto escapee Chris Bosh.

HOT SEAT AGAIN?
Spoelstra can't feel secure after latest Heat collapse against the Magic.
The Big Three promised instant championships, an assault on history and wild parties on South Beach.

Everybody got caught up in the hype. It was going to be easy and fun. After a shaky start in November, the Big Three turned up the heat, beat up on mid-level competition and became the toast of hip-hop culture.

In December and January, the Big Three kind of felt like basketball’s Death Row Records -- with LeBron as Tupac, Wade as Dr. Dre, Bosh as Snoop Dogg and Pat Riley as Big Suge Knight.

Well, now it’s March, and after Thursday’s TNT-televised meltdown against the Orlando Magic -- the Heat blew a 24-point lead and lost 99-96 -- you sort of suspect Pat Riley might want to hang coach Erik Spoelstra upside-down from a balcony.

But Spoelstra is not to blame for this catastrophe, which includes Miami’s continued struggles against playoff-caliber teams.

Wade and James are.

The Big Two conceived this poorly constructed team. The Big Two gave in to their egos and assumed any group of stiffs would be enough support for the Big Three to compete against the NBA’s best teams.

It’s just not true. And you hope Howard and Paul -- the next irresistible free-agent targets -- are taking notes. You hope they’re not still caught up in the Miami hype.

The Heat are not title contenders. Boston, Chicago, San Antonio, Dallas and Los Angeles are all significantly better than the Heat in a seven-game series. The Knicks and the Magic could give Miami trouble early in the playoffs.



Any objective basketball follower could see the Heat’s glaring, unfixable flaws in November.

No point guard. No center. And Bosh is the wrong third wheel. He doesn’t play on the low block and create space for spot-up shooters or slashers, and his rebounding and defensive presence are both inconsistent and far from overpowering.

Add those flaws to two enormous superstars -- James and Wade -- trying to figure what to do at the end of games, and you have a recipe for blown leads and an inability to finish against good teams with well-defined roles.

“Obviously there’s a trend with us where we do the same things over and over,” Bosh said. “We’ve blown a lot of 20-point leads. We’ve blown a lot of games where we’re in full control. “

The Heat led 73-49 early in the third quarter. Operating from around the paint, James and Wade combined to score 47 points in the first half. They scored two in the fourth quarter. The Magic ran traps and quick double-teams at James in the second half, forcing him to kick the ball to a teammate.

Mario Chalmers and Mike Bibby combined to shoot 3-of-15 from the field. Bosh remained in a four-game shooting slump, missing 10 of 15 shots.

Erick Dampier was Miami’s third-best offensive player on Thursday.

Let me repeat that: Erick Dampier was Miami’s third-best offensive player on Thursday.


I can’t take a team serious when a 35-year-old journeyman center who is averaging 2.3 points is its third-best offensive player. Can’t do it.

When this Heat season is over -- and it could end in April with the wrong first-round playoff seed -- it will be interesting to see whom Wade and James blame for the mess they created.

Spoelstra is the leading candidate, with Bosh quickly closing in.

The truth is, Wade and James are responsible. They bought their own hype. They’re caught up in the recent wave of conventional stupidity that says players are as smart or smarter than the coaches and executives who run the teams.

Is Tom Brady the only modern-day superstar athlete content to just be a player and chill with a supermodel at home?

James and Wade are suffering the same disease as Peyton Manning. They’re trying to do too much. At some point, the most mature thing a great athlete can do is surrender to the right coach, the right organization and let the dedicated professionals control his destiny.

Brady is going to win more titles than Manning partially because Manning has carried too big of a load working as Indy’s de facto offensive coordinator.

I’m not saying Dwight Howard has the right coach or right general manager in Orlando. I have major questions about Stan Van Gundy and Otis Smith. I’m saying Howard (and Paul) shouldn’t believe the false narrative that James and Wade did something all players should try to emulate.

[gymrat88]

The foul call on Mike Miller at the end of today's game was by far one of the worst calls I have ever seen, and it decided the game. If the officials do not call that foul, Miami gets the rebound, gets fouled, and most likely makes it a 3 point game. Instead, Deng gets two more free throws and the Bulls take a 1 point lead that wins the game.

[gymrat88]

Oh gymratttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt:

Are you forgetting the Miami Choke machine, otherwise known as #6 and #3 who BOTH missed shots (one of them a lay up) in the last five seconds that would have given the Luke warms the win.

Kinda hard to b***ch about one lousy call when the opportunity was there from point blank range to over come it.

This is more fun than seeing Michigan get beat.

It would have never got to that point if the correct call had been made. I am not b***ching about anything. It's fact. Watch the game highlights for yourself and tell me sincerely what you think of the call. The layup was contested and it was outstanding defense by Noah. James still played a solid game, and overall I thought the Heat played well. Chicago is a force to be reckoned with in the East.

[bdubya]

4-ever,

Maybe you should take that Steelers helmet and replace it with a mug of LeYouKnowWho.

Better yet, change the helmet to his mug and then have the fan taking a dump on it — like dazed&confused has.

The NBA stinks, with the rare exceptions of guys like Tim Duncan, Grant Hill and Steve Nash. Quiet, hard-working, professional people who do things the right way every day, every year. Find more of these players like they had in the 80s and early 90s, then you have a league again.

I'm taking my talents to the beach, my wife wants me to play in New York, we're talking about practice man practice, I gotta get out of Canada — OK, I'll give Bosh a pass on that one.

The point is, the NBA is going through a phase that is about to set off a very bad trend. Eight loaded teams and 22 average to bad ones will not sustain interest in the league, regardless of the location.

A smaller salary cap would prevent a lot of this, especially when certain players have proven that they are willing to sacrifice dollars for success. And if the big guns are taking pay cuts, then everyone else who just wears a uniform in the league should have no problem doing the same.

And if the lesser players do have a problem with less money (and no endorsements), then I guess we all know who they need to take it up with. The people who made it this way, and that is not the owners.

Personally I gave up on the NBA when its motto was stay in school, then allowed HS kids to enter directly into the draft. That's kind of contradictory, isn't it?

[mister b]

The Heat's record stands at a 43-20. That is a .683 winning percentage.

Their record vs the 6 top teams in the NBA (Spurs, Celtics, Mavs, Bulls, Lakers and Magic) is a dismal 3-11. That is a .214 winning percentage.

Their record vs teams win a .500 record or better is 15-18. That is a .455 percentage.

Their record in games decided by 3 points or less is 2-8.

The past 10 NBA champions had a average win percentage vs the top 6 teams in the NBA of .536.

The Heat players act like they are still playing AAU ball.

I wonder how much longer before Riley appoints himself head coach so he can effectively police the sandbox?

[bdubya]

The Heat's record stands at a 43-20. That is a .683 winning percentage.

Their record vs the 6 top teams in the NBA (Spurs, Celtics, Mavs, Bulls, Lakers and Magic) is a dismal 3-11. That is a .214 winning percentage.

Their record vs teams win a .500 record or better is 15-18. That is a .455 percentage.

Their record in games decided by 3 points or less is 2-8.

The past 10 NBA champions had a average win percentage vs the top 6 teams in the NBA of .536.

The Heat players act like they are still playing AAU ball.

I wonder how much longer before Riley appoints himself head coach so he can effectively police the sandbox?

David Hasselhoff is available for coaching considerations. Baywatch: South Beach

There is a great story by Joe Posnanski 'Rooting against LeBron' on si.com today. Posnanski is from Cleveland originally, but he takes it to an entirely different level by contrasting all sports in these scenarios. A great read for the Haters and Witnesses alike.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/03/05/t ... ?eref=sihp